Wednesday, February 20, 2008

Look at the Scoreboard

Interiour Minister Sheetrit is planning to build a modern Arab city in the Galilee. (I would suggest to him that he first deal with our enemies cities in Gaza before building them new ones.) What exactly does an "Arab city" mean though? Are there "Jewish cities" in Israel? Let's take a look at the scorecard:

Jerusalem: 30% Arab

Haifa: 15-25% Arab

Tel-Aviv: 4.2% Arab

Arabs are equal citizens in Israel with the same political rights as Jews. Arabs can live anywhere they want in Israel without restrictions. Even illegal Arab construction in Jerusalem is rarely contested.

Shechem (Nablus): 0% Jewish
Shechem is the burial place of the Biblical patriarch Yosef. In the early days of Oslo, when Israel handed Kever Yosef over to the Arabs, it was desecrated by a fanatical mob. Now, Jews are forbidden from going to Kever Yosef to pray.

Bethlehem: 0% Jewish
Rachel Imeinu is buried in Bethlehem and King David's line originated there. It is currently judenrein and Kever Rachel is frequently harassed by Arabs. Jews who go to pray there are severely inconvenienced as reaching the kever requires heavy security, passing fences and walls, and hiring armed guards.

Hebron: 0.004%
There are about 400 Jews living in Hebron around Mearat HaMachpela, the tomb of the Patriarches. They live under siege in severe conditions with heavy army presence. Thousands of Jews are able to pray at the gravesites of our nation's founders only because of the perseverance of these handful of Jews.

No Jews live in any Arab-majority city. Entire swaths of the country are judenrein. A Jew could not walk into Ramallah or Nazareth without being stoned, beaten or lynched. 7 000 Jews were thrown out of Gaza at the behest of the Arabs and hundreds of thousands more are set to be expelled in Judea and Samaria (G-d forbid). What could possibly by gained with the creation of a new terrorist camp, an Arab city, which will certainly become a hotbed of anti-Israel activity and hatred, as have all other Arab cities?

Cross-posted to Goat's Barnyard and Jewish Vengeance


Brooke said...

Another stunning example of dhimmitude.


Rita Loca said...

Crazy and scary!
How are you? Have not seen you around for awhile.

Anonymous said...

B.K: what you said about Hevron is innacurate so how can I trust the rest of your descriptions of cities in what is left of Yesha?

You write: They live under siege in severe conditions with heavy army presence.

I've been there. These Jews live in splendid conditions-better than most Jews in Israel for that matter. Some danger is involved in living in Hevron but there's danger in living in Gush Etzion or Beit El or Ma'aleh Adumim, etc...

The people living in Hevron are for the most part the last enclave of Kach left in Israel. Their views are sickening. They raise their children to hate all Arabs. I've seen this with my eyes. Until you have, you have nothing to base your description upon.

Anonymous said...

Eitan, as expected your obsession with Racism has come out again, there are actually 900 Jews in Hebron though they do live under difficult conditions and attacks from the Arabs. They teach their children to follow the Torah including the Halacha that only Ger Toshav Goyim may live in the land.

In actuality there are many so-called Kach enclaves in Israel, many of the leaders did end up in Hebron but according to a Dahaf poll from last year 80% of Daati Jews say Rabbi Kahane zt'l was right.

Anonymous said...

Kahaneloyalist: Now I'm "obsessed" with racism. Ok, that's fine but I still maintain that the Jews of Hevron are mostly racist, that they teach their kids to hate Arabs (and I don't care whether that's in the Halacha or not because it's pure ignorance), that they're really the last Kach enclave in Israel (and I've travelled Israel so I'm likely to know).

What does a poll saying most religious Jews think Kahane was right have to do with it? I think Kahane was right in most of what he said too but I'm not a Kach member.

There are 900 Jews in Hevron and an entire platoon stationed there to protect them. Their living conditions (if you consider their spacy apartments and the fact that they're the ones who attack the Arabs most of the time) are great.

Anonymous said...

Kahaneloyalist: I hope that when you read this you've had a good Shabbat and I want you to know that I share most of your ideas. I agree with B.K. on the heart of this issue: that Arabs don't need another village (this one built in the heart of Israel). They have enough places to live whereas we, Jews have been forcibly removed from what was once a much bigger and safer Israel. Shabbat shalom u'mvorach!

Avi said...

I don't think the issue is whether or not the Jews of Hebron are racists. They may very well be. We have our loonies too. But why should it be anybody's concern where they live? Just like its nobody's concern that you live in Chicago or that I live in Montreal, why should it bug anybody that Jews lives in Hebron. And it is a fact that there are no Jews in any Arab majority city and that they are not welcome there.

Papa Frank said...

"But why should it be anybody's concern where they live? Just like its nobody's concern that you live in Chicago or that I live in Montreal, why should it bug anybody that Jews lives in Hebron."

Under this exact same sentiment what is it to anyone that Messianic Jews live in Israel? Why should it bug anyone that they live there? And yet you and KL and Eitan have all expressed the sentiment that they are or should be expelled. If your statement here is true then it should be true of Messianic Jews in Israel as well.

Avi said...

You keep on pushing the Messianic issue and whenever I respond, I get attacked. I think that Christian missionaries in Israel are lions in sheep's clothing. I think that, just as we have been oppressed and forcible converted or forced to listen to the sermons of other religions while we were in exile, now that we are the masters of our own house, we should not be subjected to anybody else's faith. We have died for the Sh'mah Yisrael, and no proselytizing will take that away from us. A Jew that believes in Christianity is a Christian, just like a Christian that belives in Islam is a Muslim.

Now drop this topic before it gets out of hand.

Avi said...

***ooops, meant wolves in sheep's clothing.

Papa Frank said...

So is your original statement to Eitan false then or does it only apply to the Jews that align themselves with your definition and live in Hebron? If your original statement is true then you should not care where Messianic Jews live either. That's all I'm saying. Be consistent!!!

Anonymous said...

Frank: No, you be consistent. Don't mistake a Christian for a Jew. If a Christian calling himself a "Messianic Jew" makes Aliya he/she has no right to stay in Israel because non-Jews are for the most part not granted the rigt of citizenship. Like, B.K. I'm getting sick of friendly Christians spitting in our faces and telling us how to live because that is exactly what Messianic "Jews" do on a daily basis.

My message to you and every other Zionist Christian is to stop defending these traitors and let the Jewish people decide who stays in Israel and who doesn't.

Papa Frank said...

By the way -- I don't at all think that Messianic Jews are better than other Jews but neither do I think they are less than other Jews. I also do not believe them to be Christians or believe that only Christians will go to heaven. Christians are not the same as catholics which seems to be where you get your views of christianity and christian belief from.

Papa Frank said...

Eitan -- I can't speak to the actions of Messianic Jews in Israel because I have not been there to witness it. However, I would still contend that they are Jews and have the right to be in Israel. Just like there are Jews who are professed atheists but were born Jews. You yourself have confessed to being basically a non-practicing Jew but yet I believe in your right as well to the land of Israel. You are not any less of a Jew for being non-practicing.

Anonymous said...

Jason: I may be an un-practicing Jew but I'm still Jewish. On the other hand, Messianic Jews openly profess their belief that Jesus was the Messiah. You cannot believe Jesus was a Messiah and still be a Jew. These people are trying, in simpler terms, to have the cake and eat it too. This will not go unnoticed.

Deborah said...

What you refuse to acknowledge about Messianic Jews is that they love HaShem with all of their hearts, souls, strength, and minds! :o Though not perfect in practice, as none are, they love and understand Torah as well as their non-Messianic Jewish brethren do. The difference that divides is that they accept and believe in the very Jewish Messiah named Yeshua.

Wow, so do you mean to tell me that all the Jews that have accepted and touted various men as Messiah lost their Jewish identity when they did so? All those Jews who believed Bar Kochba was Messiah lost or forfeited their Jewishness? All those Jews who believed Schneerson was Messiah lost or fortfeited their Jewishness?

Eitan, unlike you, the Messianic Jew takes a hard-line against anything and anyone that threatens the state of Israel and its Jewish citizens... they are not as soft as you are!!!!!! Messianic Jews are pro-Torah, pro-Israel, pro-Zionism... they are militant regarding Israel and its right to the Land! Whereas, I have secular and reform Jewish friends who are ashamed to be Jewish and who think it is an atrocity that Jews went into "Palenstine" and took the Land from the Palestinians - my secular and reform Jewish friends do not believe Jews have a right to the Land!!! I have Jewish friends living in Israel who love HaShem and come to America and Canada to visit synagogues in trying to solicit interest among their own about making Aliyah... they need Jewish people to populate Israel... but their brethren don't want to be bothered. All is well in Egypt... why go to a place where life is hard? Mark my words, as we enter into the most troublesome time the world has ever known, it will be the Messianic, Torah-observant Jews who will defend and stand for Israel and their Jewish brethren while the secular and reform Jews will be demanding a two-state solution or out-right withdrawal from the Land. Not to mention that secular Jews may very well be preventing return of Messiah as they march their "gay" agenda through the streets of Jerusalem, kill their unborn babies - every female Israeli soldier is allowed two free abortions per year, and build their pagan temples to worship false and foreign gods.

BK, I promise you, in the days ahead, when Israel is fighting to hang onto every square millimeter of dirt, the Messianic Jew will defend and fight for Israel (you) physically and spiritually, whereas, most of your secular, atheistic Jewish brethren will bug-out and leave Israel (you) for dead while telling Israel (you) over their shoulder as they walk away that you didn't have a right to the land to begin with.

So really, you can tell me with a straight face and utmost conviction that those who totally disregard HaShem, hate the thought of living by Torah, have assimilated and synchronized with the world and foreign gods and golden calves, who embrace homosexuality, who kill their unborn babies, and who discount Israel and its right to exist are still called "Jews" and have the right of return while HaShem fearing and loving, Torah-observant, very Jewish Messianic Jews are not Jewish and have no right to go to the Land promised to their father, Avraham???? What's wrong with that picture???

Avi said...

I told you to drop this topic now. We will go nowhere. Jason, do you have a problem that you have to keep on bringing it up? I will repeat my belief that they are Christian, you will call me hateful and the world will spin round and round.

Just a sidenote: Whether or not the Moshiach will be Schneerson, John, Bob, Jack or Yankele, Judaism will be the same. What separates Judaism and Christianity is not simply the identity of the moshiach but intense beliefs. Christianity claims that G-d became man, a heretical and idolatrous belief. It believes that the only way for salvation is to accept this moshiach, while the Torah never mentions that. The Jewish way for salvation is to love G-d, fear Him and to keep His commandments. Christianity believes that G-d changed His mind about the Torah and "fulfilled" it through JC, while Jews believes the Torah eternal. The NT calls the Torah "the curse of the Law" but Jews believe that it is perfect.

Papa Frank said...

BK -- I did not call you hateful here but rather simply pointed out the inconsistency in your original statement to Eitan.

Anonymous said...

Eitan, if a "Messianic" was truly born to a Jewish mother, and remember most of them dont have a drop of Jewish blood, they would indeed still be considered Jews, but also Mi'inim a classification of the worst heretic who is also a traitor, they should indeed be expelled immediatly.

Deborah said...

BK, consider it dropped on my part and I won't bother rebutting your "sidenote", which was not a necessary addition in asking others to drop the topic, but certainly a necessary addition in assuring your Jewish brethren that you have no sympathies for Messianics - totally understandable!

Aside from that topic, your observation regarding the Arabs, whether 400 or 900 Jews live in Hebron, is true! I am a peace-loving, compassionate Christian who loves other people to my detriment sometimes, but when I'm in Israel, there is an internal struggle to feel any compassion or love for muslims who have directly or indirectly maimed and killed Israeli Jews in the name of a moon god - I battle feelings of hate! I feel utter disgust for jihad and its politics that are hateful and murderous toward anyone who disagrees. Does that make me a racist?

Eitan, if my feeling is what you're describing regarding the Jews in Hebron, is that racist? Or is that feeling considered righteous anger manifested toward an unrighteous religion and politics that kills the Jews I love? I thank HaShem those Jews are brave enough to stand their ground, and I thank Him for allowing them to do so in splendid homes... why should they have to be poor and stripped of dignity to defend the Jewish right to the Land? I'm glad they have the backbone to do so!!!!! Without backbone like that, the land will be whittled away until the Jews are left with a strip of land smaller than Gaza, and quite honestly, the muslims won't stop at that either. Do the Jews in Hebron really teach their children to hate or do they teach them righteous indignation toward unholy politics and an unholy Islamic war that's bent on exterminating Zionists, both Jews and Christians? I think its spineless people with spineless politics who are teaching my children to love Islam and if they don't, they're called Islam-a-phobics who are inherently guilty of hate crimes. Have I taught my children to murder and maim muslims? NO, G-d forbid! Have I taught my children to that we need to stand in the gap to pray for Israel and the Jewish people, support Israel financially, politically, and militarily? YES! The secular media and public school system teaches my children and the children of my friends that their Zionist parents, who are by-and-large loving and peaceful, are "RACIST"! Dear, Eitan, be careful in wielding the term "racist" against your own Jewish brethren in this matter, it may come back to haunt you!

BTW, there are 22 other full-fledged muslim countries and several free countries to which these muslims can move to allow a small strip of land, void of oil and gas, to go to a persecuted people, who were removed from it against their wills not because "they gave away the farm". But instead they stay to shoot rockets into Jewish populations, and when given the chance, they bomb buses and restaurants.

Anonymous said...

deborah: I have no patience to argue anything with you and honestly don't feel like it.

Kahaneloyalist: ok, gotcha.

B.K: I didn't want to get into this argument in the first place.

Avi said...

Argument closed.

WomanHonorThyself said...

soooooooooooooooo true Bar..

Anonymous said...

I don't think Israel should give up an inch. Especially in places like the Golan Heights, where it would be strategic and tactical suicide.