Sunday, November 25, 2007

Christianity and the Noahide Laws

I've been having a fantastic debate with Evangelical Christians over the past little while and I would love to continue it. Just to briefly state what the Jewish view of Christianity's purpose is, here are the words of the Rambam (Mainmonides) in his Laws of Kings, Chapter 11:4 :

"Even Jesus the Notzri, who thought he was the Messiah... was the subject of a prophesy in the Book of Daniel (11, 14): "...also the renegades of your people will exalt themselves to fulfill the vision - but they will stumble." Could there be a greater stumbling block than this [Jesus]? For all the prophets spoke of the Messiah who will redeem and save Israel, who will ingather all its exiles, and who will strengthen them in the fulfillment of the Torah's commandments - while he [Jesus] caused Israel to be killed by the sword, their remnants to be dispersed and humiliated, the Torah to be switched for something else, and most of the world to worship a G-d other than the G-d of Israel! But - the thoughts of G-d cannot be fathomed by human minds. For our ways are not like His, and our thoughts are not like His. All these activities of Jesus the Notzri, and the Ishmaelite [Muhammad] who came after him, are all for the purpose of paving the way for the true King Messiah, and preparing the entire world to worship G-d together, as is written (Tzefaniah 3,9): 'For then I will convert the nations to a pure language, that they may all call in the name of G-d and serve Him together.'

"How will this work? For by then, the world will already be filled with the idea of Messiah, and Torah, and commandments, even in far-off islands and in closed-hearted nations, where they engage in discussions on the Torah's commandments: some say that the Torah's commandments are true but are no longer binding in these times, while others say that there are hidden, deep meanings to them, and that the Messiah has come and revealed their hidden secrets. But when the true King Messiah arrives, and will succeed and will raise them up, all the peoples will immediately realize that they had been taught lies by their forefathers, and that their ancestors and prophets had misled them."

Christianity and Islam serve to bring Biblical stories, concepts and ideas to a largely pagan world. Today, over half of the world's inhabitants follow an Abrahamic religion. These two religions are tools through which G-d will bring the true messiah.

The Torah is not just for Jews but for non-Jews as well. Jews were given 613 commandments and non-Jews 7 commandments to follow. They are:








To learn more about these laws, visit Noahide Nations, Christianity Revealed or Ask Noah.


Papa Frank said...

What do any of these words have to do with Christianity or Judaism? These are the opinions of man and not the words of God. To take these words as law for a Jew or a Christian would be heresy and tantamount to making Rambam an idol.

WomanHonorThyself said...

hey there Bar...thanks for sharing this..I hadnt seen this Rambam..and cant believe he even mentions the RoP!..heh

Avi said...

Frank Family: Nobody takes the Rambam's words as law. There no Jewish groups (except for certain Yemenite congregations) that accept the Rambam's opinions on halakhah, practice, though he was a great Torah scholar and we study his works. The Rambam, however, is simply explaining how Christianity and Islam, which seem to have brought only death and pain to the nation of Israel, really have a role to play in the redemption of mankind and the coming of the moshiach.

Angel: He actually speaks a lot about Yoshke and Mo in his Epistle to Yemen when he encourage the beleaguered Jews to remain steadfast in their faith despite persecution. The Rambam even calls our favourite pseudo-prophet 'a madman'!

As the Hebrew expression goes: "From Moses (the Lawgive) to Moses (Maimonides) there was none like Moses".

Anonymous said...

BK, in this you are incorrect both in your answer to the Goy Frank Family and on the Rambam.

Towards the Rambam, it is true in most areas we do not follow his Halachot right out of the Mishne Torah. Though Rav Yosef Cairo often follows the Rambam. But in areas in which the Shulchan Aruch is silent, Rav Yosef Cairo said we are to follow the Rambam. This tends towards political matters certain definitions such as Avodah Zara, Ben Noach, matters such as freeing Jews from captivity.

As for Frank family, the words of the Chachamim are the related words of the Mesorah and are law. After the Torah was revealed on Har Sinai Hashem gave the power to decide questions of Halacha into the hands of the Sanhedrin, when the Sanhedrin was dissolved(though it will be fully restored) the power went into the individual Gedolai Yisrael, though they must have a source from the Mesorah before speaking.

Goyim have no place to speak in matters of Halacha, not now or ever; so for your own sake be silent.

Avi said...

KL: Thank you for clearing that up for me. I admit that I have many questions and are unsure of many Torah matters. I do ask you, however, to be a bit more respectful. It is like some chareidim who look down and are rude to the non-observant Jews and by that prevent them form doing teshuva. Please teach but be a bit more polite.

About the Sanhedrin, the Torah gives the Sanhedrin permission to make rulings about the law. Since the Sanhedrin and the majority of the Jews, according to the Christian Bible, did not accept Yeishu, how can any Jew (G-d forbid) or any Bible-believe accept him?

KL, stop by more and please correct me whenever I am wrong in matters of Torah. Just please be a bit nicer ;) Remember, Pirkei Avot says to greet everyone with sever panim yafot, a smile and a friendly countenance.

Papa Frank said...

"Goyim have no place to speak in matters of Halacha, not now or ever; so for your own sake be silent."

Take your derogatory term of "goyim" and stick it. I will speak freely as I am a free man of intelligence and normally of a kind demeanor. I am not an ant-semite and will not put up with your racist actions towards myself.

BK -- thank you for your kind words of tolerance.

Anonymous said...

BK, I apologize for my tone,you are 100% correct, my problem is I get very angered when Goyim talk about Jewish law or tell us how they really understand the Torah better then the Gedolim.

Anonymous said...

Frank, this is not an issue of race as any Goy may convert and be as Jewish as I or BK. But according to Halacha Goyim have no place to decide matters of Jewish law.

Also Goy, means nation, and Goyim is the plural form.

Anonymous said...

Frank, this is not an issue of race as any Goy may convert and be as Jewish as I or BK. But according to Halacha Goyim have no place to decide matters of Jewish law.

Also Goy, means nation, and Goyim is the plural form.

Papa Frank said...

Goyim is also a word with derogatory connotations -- do you disagree?

Papa Frank said...

n. pl. goy·im (goim) or goys Offensive
Used as a disparaging term for one who is not a Jew.

Avi said...

Frank Family: The word goy is not necessarily derogatory. Just like Jew can be used derogatorily, the usage just depends on the context. Since the Jews are 'a people that dwells apart and among the nations (goyyim) is not reckoned", everyone who is not a Jew is a goy, a member of the nations.

KL: In a certain sense, you were right in your opinion but your tone was uncalled for. Thank you for the apology. Since the Torah was given to the Jews and they have made it their sole or primary occupation for thousands of years, the Jews are obviously experts in matters of Torah. While non-Jews are free to study, the Jews know truly what is a Torah idea and what is not. That is why the majority of Jews rejected Yeishu and continue to reject Christianity; since it is absolutely not a Jewish thing but rather a mixture of pagan customs. Probably why the Church was so hateful to the Jews was because only the Jews possess the real knowledge about the messiah and can refute the Yoshkele nonsense, since the pagans who converted to Christianity knew nothing about messiah. If you have a quesiton about pasta, you'd ask the Italians!

I hope that we can continue this debate civily. Let's always remember darkei shalom, being peaceful and polite.