Perverted Values
Amidst the increasing attacks on Israel, US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, has called for Israel to show restraint in dealing with Qassam rockets, suicide bombings and deadly terrorism. Israel's legendary restraint has led some to call the IDF the most moral army in the world. I beg to differ. Israel's restraint is an example of perverted values, of fighting according to Western standards of "turn the other cheek" and not Jewish morals.
"When you go forth in battle to your enemies" (Deut. 20:1)... What is meant by against your enemies? G-d said, 'Confront them as enemies. Just as they show you no mercy, so you should show them no mercy" (Tanchuma, Shotim 15). When Israel provides the Arabs with electricity, water, goods, etc., it is violating the command of the Midrash. The Arabs who fight against us are our enemies and not our friends. "You are going to war against your enemies and not your brethren. It is not Judah against Simeon or Simeon against Judah such that if you fall captive they will have mercy on you... It is against your enemies that your are waging war. If you fall into their hand, they will show you no mercy." (Sifri, Shoftim 192) The time for mercy is long over. It is time to put all pity and consideration aside and repay those murderous thugs "seven-fold", and eye for an eye.
Some may protest that such collective punishment is immoral and yet the Torah differs on this. We learn from Sotah 11a that Job was punished for not speaking out against Pharaoh's decree. Silence means assent. "Whoever is capable of protesting and does not do so will be punished" (Avodah Zara 18a). All Arabs in Gaza have the right to prevent their homes from being used as a launch-pad for terror, to leave or to suffer the consequences. In the same vein, the silence and impotence of Israel's leaders makes them collaborators in the death of Roni Yechiyeh HY"D and all those who have been slain al kiddush HaShem in Sderot and all over Israel.
After the massacre of Shechem, Ya'akov rebuked Shimon and Levi. To this, they answered "Shall our sister be treated like a harlot?" (Gen. 34:31), Ya'akov accepted their argument with silence, recognizing the necessity of their deeds. They performed a great mitzvah and for this reason the city of Shechem became Shimon's tribal banner. Today we must ask, "shall our brothers be treated as disposible?", will Jewish blood be considered cheap, expendable, worthless? Will the perpetrators of thiese heinous acts be brought to justice?
When the brothers answered Ya'akov, he remained silent. R. Yehuda bar Shimon (Bereshit Rabba 80:12) said: [They said] The water was muddy and we made it clear. 'Shall he treat her like a harlot?'. They treated us as though our lives had no value'. The medieval commentators justify the massacre of Shechem. Rambam (Hilchot Melachim 9:14) wrote: "A descendant of Noach who violates one of these seven [Noahide] laws shall be killed by the sword. Hence, all of the residents of Shechem incurred a death, beause Shechem stole and they saw and knew yet they did not put him on trial." Ramban on Gen. 34:13 differs from the Rambam: "Because the people of Shechem were evildoers whose blood they considered like water, Ya'akov's sons wished to smite them all with an avenging sword. They killed the king and all the people of his city, because they were his slaves and under his charge." The people of Gaza have allowed terrorists to rain missiles on Sderot, violating the prohibition against murder. There is no alternative besides sending the stern message that the Jewish people will not be trifled with.
" For He that avengeth blood hath remembered them; He hath not forgotten the cry of the humble."
"When you go forth in battle to your enemies" (Deut. 20:1)... What is meant by against your enemies? G-d said, 'Confront them as enemies. Just as they show you no mercy, so you should show them no mercy" (Tanchuma, Shotim 15). When Israel provides the Arabs with electricity, water, goods, etc., it is violating the command of the Midrash. The Arabs who fight against us are our enemies and not our friends. "You are going to war against your enemies and not your brethren. It is not Judah against Simeon or Simeon against Judah such that if you fall captive they will have mercy on you... It is against your enemies that your are waging war. If you fall into their hand, they will show you no mercy." (Sifri, Shoftim 192) The time for mercy is long over. It is time to put all pity and consideration aside and repay those murderous thugs "seven-fold", and eye for an eye.
Some may protest that such collective punishment is immoral and yet the Torah differs on this. We learn from Sotah 11a that Job was punished for not speaking out against Pharaoh's decree. Silence means assent. "Whoever is capable of protesting and does not do so will be punished" (Avodah Zara 18a). All Arabs in Gaza have the right to prevent their homes from being used as a launch-pad for terror, to leave or to suffer the consequences. In the same vein, the silence and impotence of Israel's leaders makes them collaborators in the death of Roni Yechiyeh HY"D and all those who have been slain al kiddush HaShem in Sderot and all over Israel.
After the massacre of Shechem, Ya'akov rebuked Shimon and Levi. To this, they answered "Shall our sister be treated like a harlot?" (Gen. 34:31), Ya'akov accepted their argument with silence, recognizing the necessity of their deeds. They performed a great mitzvah and for this reason the city of Shechem became Shimon's tribal banner. Today we must ask, "shall our brothers be treated as disposible?", will Jewish blood be considered cheap, expendable, worthless? Will the perpetrators of thiese heinous acts be brought to justice?
When the brothers answered Ya'akov, he remained silent. R. Yehuda bar Shimon (Bereshit Rabba 80:12) said: [They said] The water was muddy and we made it clear. 'Shall he treat her like a harlot?'. They treated us as though our lives had no value'. The medieval commentators justify the massacre of Shechem. Rambam (Hilchot Melachim 9:14) wrote: "A descendant of Noach who violates one of these seven [Noahide] laws shall be killed by the sword. Hence, all of the residents of Shechem incurred a death, beause Shechem stole and they saw and knew yet they did not put him on trial." Ramban on Gen. 34:13 differs from the Rambam: "Because the people of Shechem were evildoers whose blood they considered like water, Ya'akov's sons wished to smite them all with an avenging sword. They killed the king and all the people of his city, because they were his slaves and under his charge." The people of Gaza have allowed terrorists to rain missiles on Sderot, violating the prohibition against murder. There is no alternative besides sending the stern message that the Jewish people will not be trifled with.
" For He that avengeth blood hath remembered them; He hath not forgotten the cry of the humble."
כִּי-דֹרֵשׁ דָּמִים, אוֹתָם זָכָר; לֹא-שָׁכַח, צַעֲקַת עֲנָוִים
Cross-posted to Jewish Vengeance and Goat's Barnyard
15 comments:
young activist -- I see you're as cheerful as ever!
I'll be honest with you. I got bored without you. Your comments amused me. Feel free to stop by as often as you like. Maybe you'll learn something.
I have a sincere question for you: Taking into consideration the constant rocket attacks on Sderot and the recent murder of Roni Yechyeh HY"D (I know that Jewish blood is cheap to you but bear with me), why should Israel be expected to tolerate such attacks on its sovereingty and citizens when no other country would be expected to do the same?
If a person kills their attacker, are they a murderer? Is there equivolence between rocket attacks on civilians (Sderot has no military value) and accidental civilian deaths going after terrorists who choose to cowardly hide among them?
Liberals believe that history always starts this morning. Brush up on your Jewish history. The attacks on Jewish settlements in Israel did not begin in 2008, in 1967 or 1948. When the Jews began returning actively to Zion, the Arabs opposed it. Hundreds of Jews were murdered in the riots of 1920-21 and 1929- innocent Jews who never harmed Arabs. There was no "Occupation" then, there asn't even an Israel. When Israel declared its Independence in 1948, one million Arab soldiers invaded the tiny country, promising to throw the Jews into the sea. The Rock of Israel stood up for us. There was no "Occupation" then. In 1967, Israel pre-emptively attacked and destroyed them. A victor does not return land in a war.
Israel has tried numerous times to compromise and give back land. You cannot understand the Arab mentality- strength is the language of the desert. It was only after Oslo that suicide bombings started. The Second Lebanon War was only possible because Israel withdrew from Southern Lebanon. And why are the rockets raining down on Sderot? In 2005, the Israeli government, for peace, expelled approximately 10 000 law-abiding Jews from their rightful homes in Gaza, an enormous compromise and the wound still hurts today. The Jews of Gush Katif, against incredible odds, built amazing things and made the deserts blood. The animals, when given Gush Katif, desecrated the synagogues that were left behind and instead of using the greenhouses for agriculture, destroyed them and used them as rocket launchpads. Gaza has been judenrein and rocket-free since 2005 -- where is the peace? Compromise has never worked. To war!
During WWII, should the Allies have bombed Germany, knowing full well that there would be civilains casulaties? Given that the stakes are just as high for Israel today, this is a valid question.
Comparing me to Hamas is reprehensible. The IDF has NEVER intentionally killed civilians and whenver civilians have been killed, it is because terrorists hid among them. The ones that you should condemn are the cowardly terrorists who place themselves in hospitals, schools or daycares. The onus is on them to stop firing at Israel. Israel's priority is to its citizens and the others can go to hell. I don't seem to recall a time when the Jews just decided to kill every Arab that they could get their hands on, though the cries of "itbach al-yahud" have reverberated across the land many times.
I do not bring up these Arab attrocities for sympathy. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Israel has tried to compromise before- what do you think the 2005 Gaza pullout was? What did we get in return? Rockets! Israel has given the Arabs tons of weapons and goods and released hundreds of prisoners. They have gone back to terrorizing and handfuls of Jews have been killed with the very weapons that Israel gave the Arabs. What does Israel have to show for its "good-will" gestures? Only dead Jews!
And I'll answer your question: Zionism's goal is to have a Jewish state, peace or no prace. Nobody wants peace more than me but I want a Jewish peace, one that will only come about by expelling our foes, settling every inch of our land and fulfilling our Jewish destiny. And revenge isn't so bad either.
(Psalms 58:11-12): The righteous man shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. Men shall say, "Verily there is a reward for the righteous. Verily there is a G-d Who judges on earth."
watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LWC_7kTeWc
I said no religious coercion. Address the previous topic and we'll get to that later.
Did you totally miss the parts of Hamas' charter which call for the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jewish People, quoting the Islamic hadith. (I'm very, very serious. Look it up.) Why should Israel be expected to negotiate with an organization that wants to kill us? Until Hamas removes those parts of its Charter and explicitly renounces genocide of the Jewish Nation, there can be no negotiation or even recognition. Literally hundreds of Jews have been sacrificed at the altar of Islamic peace, even during the hudna. Hamas is not a reliable partner. This is not a hypothetical situation- this has happened in the past and will happen again.
Israel had allowed the Phalange to enter the camps as part of a plan to transfer authority to the Lebanese, and accepted responsibility for that decision. The Kahan Commission of Inquiry, formed by the Israeli government in response to public outrage and grief, found that Israel was indirectly responsible for not anticipating the possibility of Phalangist violence. Israel instituted the panel's recommendations, including the dismissal of Gen. Raful Eitan, the Army Chief of Staff. Defense Minister Ariel Sharon resigned.
The Kahan Commission, declared former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, was "a great tribute to Israeli democracy....There are very few governments in the world that one can imagine making such a public investigation of such a difficult and shameful episode."
Ironically, while 300,000 Israelis demonstrated in Israel to protest the killings, little or no reaction occurred in the Arab world. Outside the Middle East, a major international outcry against Israel erupted over the massacres. The Phalangists, who perpetrated the crime, were spared the brunt of the condemnations for it.
By contrast, few voices were raised in May 1985, when Muslim militiamen attacked the Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh Palestinian refugee camps. According to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded. During a two-year battle between the Syrian-backed Shiite Amal militia and the PLO, more than 2,000, including many civilians, were reportedly killed. No outcry was directed at the PLO or the Syrians and their allies over the slaughter. International reaction was also muted in October 1990 when Syrian forces overran Christian-controlled areas of Lebanon. In the eight-hour clash, 700 Christians were killed-the worst single battle of Lebanon's Civil War.
I don't mean to say that every criticism of Israel is anti-semitic, becasue every democracy should be critcized, or that you are because you are simply naive and foolish, but applying a double standard to Israel is anti-semitic. The world is in an uproar now that Israel is defending itself against Arab aggression.
Of course, there is an intense contradiction between a Jewish state and Arab citizens. Can any Arab dance on Independence Day and celebrate the Jewish defeat of his brethren? Can an Arab sing the national anthem which speaks of "the Jewish soul yearning", when he has no Jewish soul and has not yearned for 2000 years to return? The Jewish Dream is his nightmare! Can he be expected to join the army and fight against his fellow Arabs? How should he relate to a state whose language, religion, history and culture is different than his own and that he feels belongs to him and that it was stolen? An Arab's national aspirations cannnot be bought for indoor plumbing or higher living standards. It is for this reason that hundreds have committed terrorist attacks against the state and why a number of "Israeli"-Arab Members of Knesset have supported Hizbullah and Hamas. An Arab MK has even said that he does not sing "Hatikvah!". Simply put, they are not just Israelis of a different faith.
YA, you are too smart to be this stupid. It is a mere 60 years since the Holocaust and the world was silent as the Jews were burning. (I am not justifying Israel by the Holocaust. See my post 'Our Only Claim' http://masada1234.blogspot.com/2007/07/our-only-claim.html). We lived under the wonderful hospitality of the goyim for 2000 years and enjoyed such wonderful treats like pogroms, Crusades, Inquisitions, massacres, oppressions, ghettos, blood libels, jihads, etc. Zionism is telling the world 'thanks, but no thanks'. We will not return to exile no matter what. We have been returned to our land and a nation that has prayed, wept, mourned and yearned for 2000 years for Zion, that swore "if I forget thee O Jerusalem", that never forget its homeland, will NEVER be torn away from it again. Israel is our guarantee against pogroms today. Don't fool yourself into thinking that anti-semitism has disappeared. In my town, in the past few years, a Jewish elementary school was firebombed, as well as a yeshiva, a yeshiva student beaten up, Jewish community center also firebombed and 15 000 people marched downtown in support of Hizbullah. The world has not changed a bit. 60 years ago, the call was "Jews, to Palestine!" and now the world says, "Jews, out of Palestine!". No matter what we do, where we are, we are hated. We are not going back to exile so you can shut it.
(watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LWC_7kTeWc)
As for Hamas, Israel has everything to lose by negotiating with Hamas and nothing to gain. Many Jews have been killed in suicide bombings and rocket attacks during the hudna. Their aim is to kill us and they have said so numerous times. When your enemy says something, believe him.
It is also hard to hold the Germans responsible for one leader 60 years ago, but... this convo is no longer productive. What's done is done. Let us end genocide today. (Don't forget that much of the Islamic world is planning for a second Holocaust.)
Many Zionists were aredently secular but many were religious. The Oriental Jews were religious Zioinsts as were many of the Russian Chovevei Tzion (Lovers of Zion). Think of the Rav Kook. When Herzl proposed having a Jewish state in Uganda, the Russian delegation stormed out. They said "no Zionism without Zion". And truthfully so. We do not belong anywhere else.
I wouldn't devote any time to the Neturai Karta. They are a bunch of loonies who dance when Jews are blown up by Hamas and attended Iran's hate-fest deyning the Holocaust, along with white supremacists and jihadists. They have been excommunicated by virutally every single Jewish group, including even the most anti-Zionist. (Religious anti-zionism is mostly a fringe thing and the majority of religious Jews support Israel. If you really want to know why they believe that way, I can explain their theology but it matters little to this debate.
Judaism is only complete in Israel. A Jew in exile is like a fish out of water. You bring up Baruch Goldstein. I think that his self-sacrifice and heroism already atone for his sins. He saw his friends murdered and was ignored when he warned the security forces of a coming Muslim pogrom on Purim/ Ramadan. Erev Purim, Goldstein went down to the Tomb of the Patriarchs to hear the reading of the Megillah and saw the Arabs brandishing weapons and screaming "Itbach al-yahud!", kill the Jews. He did the best that he could and slew the wicked ones, saving many Jewish lives. May HaShem avenge his blood.
Goldstein killed no innocents but terrorists with wapons in their hands and "death to the Jews" on their lips. Jews law states that he who rises to kill you, kill him first. This is what he did.
A holocaust against the Pseudostinians is absurd. The term was mistranslated in order to be painful. The Israeli official used the words "shoah" meaning disaster, not implyiing "the Shoah", which means the Holocaust.
I am but a few years older than you and I am unable to make aliyah. But I do seriously plan to do so in a few years. If you're such an ardent anti-Zionist, why don't you live in Pseudostine?
Jewish anti-Zionism bases itself from a Talmudic statement that G-d made the Jewish promise swear 2 oaths before going to exile, not to rebel against the nations, and not "to go up like a wall", to conquer Israel. The nations also swore "not to overburden Israel much" with oppression. These oaths were interedependent. The Holocaust and all the oppression violated the nations' oath and the Jews are now longer bound by theirs. That is one answer. Another is that Israel was given permission by the British Mandate, and the UN and thus it is no longer rebelling against the nations. Ever hear of religious Zionism?
BK, and there are even better answers to the oaths, it is only brought down as Aggaditah, not Halacha, Rebbe Akiva clearly did not hold of the oaths as you must know from your namesake. As well as the dominant rabbinic opinion in regards to Eretz Yisrael until modern times when anti-Zionists needed a halachic source for their opinion was the Ramban Sefer HaMitzvot, Mitzvah Asei #4
This individual seriously aggravated me, but I'm not going to engage in a long distance exchange of insults. I stand by what I said.
Hermit, not to defend him but remember that young activist is just that -- young. He has never defended anything but his lunch money from the school bully. You have put your life on the line for your country and therefore possess a far greater insight that he does not have.
I didn't realize he was just a kid until I actually went to his blog and saw he was fifteen. Then I was embarrassed for letting someone that age bother me.
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