Wednesday, February 6, 2008

Mipnei Darkei Shalom?

I have a question for all of my readers. In light of recent controversies, divisons and discord sown by discussion of Judaism and Christianity, I am considering not posting on Christianity anymore. I think that this is most unfortunate since, in the words of the Talmud, a disagreement for the sake of Heaven is meant to endure. I find it ridiculous that Christians post to their heart's content very theologically anti-Jewish statement, about the Torah being completed by JC, and yet, when I try to refute these posts, I get irate comments from angry Christians. What's a poor yid to do? Not to mention that there are tons of Jews lost in cults and drinking from impure waters form forein wells.

Should I:

a) Brave angry comments and discord to defend the Torah and set the record straight about the Moshiach?

or

b) Refrain from posting about Christianity for the sake of peace and ignore Jews who desperately need a Torah lifeline?

I am sorry for any anger or hatred.


"Rabbi Eleazar said in the name of Rabbi Chanina: 'Torah Scholars increase peace in the world, as it is said: 'And all your children will be students of G-d and your children will have abundant peace' - do not read `your children (banayich)', but `your builders (bonayich)', for there is an abundant peace for the lovers of Your Torah, and there is no stumbling block for them. May there be peace within your walls, serenity within your palaces. For the sake of my brethren and my comrades, I shall speak of peace in your midst. For the sake of the House of G-d, I will request good for you. G-d will give might to His nation, and G-d will bless His nation with peace." (Berachot 6A)

12 comments:

Yehudi01 said...

A question to ask yourself, my friend is: "Is this productive?" First, is God being glorified through the discussion? Are people learning and moving closer to Hashem as a result? If the end result is an increase in holiness among us all, and we increase in knowledge, then it is a righteous endeavor. If the answer is 'no' then it's just a contentious argument that goes nowhere.

I personally really enjoy a good debate, but only when it's based on the merits of the texts being covered. When it gets ugly and malicious like your other post is, I just stay away. I have nothing to add to that forum. You do a great job, BK. I've learned alot from you, my friend. Do what you know is right.

Eitan said...

BK: I completely agree with yehudi. Daniel is a wise man and I would know that were I to judge solely from those words.

You would not be braving anything by continuing this conversation. You would be acting childishly because when there's no point to something and one continues doing it, well what can I say? That's being childish.

Take the wise step: rid yourself of more painful conflict and choose:

b) Refrain from posting about Christianity for the sake of peace and ignore Jews who desperately need a Torah lifeline?

If you're referring to me when you talk of "Jews who desparately need a Torah lifeline" I can honestly say I didn't learn a thing from those debates. I didn't read your arguments because I wasn't interested. I alraedy know what I know in the depth of my heart and do not need the words of the hahamim to back it up.

WomanHonorThyself said...

Only talk to those who will listen my friend.........
Shalom U'vracha!!

kahaneloyalist said...

Are they friends if this is how they respond to the Jewish position?

BK, do what is right, fight Avoda Zara with all the strength you have. Perphaps your words will reach even one Jew who has had his soul trapped by the Notsrim, or lead a Goy to the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach.

najistani said...

These online debates are often trolled by Muslims posing as either extremist Christians or extremist Jews, with the objective of weakening the Judeo-Christian counter-jihadist alliance (if we don't hang together we'll all hang separately!).

Instead of squabbling, we should concentrate our critical faculties on Islam.

Islam is a totalitarian thought-control and information-control cult that is attempting to stifle criticism of itself throughout the world.

WE MUST DEFEND FREE SPEECH - USE IT OR LOSE IT! WE SHOULD INSULT ISLAM EVERY DAY

Here's an excellent article by the courageous Maryam Namazie on why it is our inalienable right to insult, satirize and ridicule Islam - with its perverted prophet, its brothel-keeper-in-the-sky bogeyman moon-god, and its one billion brain-dead stone-age memoid followers - and to offend them just as much as we like.

We should set numerous precedents by exercising this right as often and as vigorously as possible. USE IT OR LOSE IT! The thought-police would love to gag us.

From http://www.newstatesman.com/200802050001

"Since religion is divinely ordained, it follows that any real or imputed questioning, criticising or transgressing will lead to blasphemy, apostasy or some form of ‘corruption’. Of course it doesn’t matter so much if you live in a place where religion is to a large extent a private matter. But if you don’t, then a lot of things become ‘crimes’ punishable by death.

One of many examples is the outrageous death sentence imposed by an Islamic court in Afghanistan on Parwiz Kambakhsh, the 23 year old journalist and student, for downloading and distributing an article criticising women’s status under Islam.

Many have rightly come to his defence and must keep the pressure on. But to defend Parwiz by saying he did not ‘intend’ to blaspheme misses the entire point.

This is exactly what the likes of the Muslim Council of Britain say in order to conceal the responsibility of their political Islamic movement. For example, the MCB ‘greeted’ the release of Gillian Gibbons (the British schoolteacher who was imprisoned in Sudan for allowing her 7 year old students to name their class teddy bear Mohammad) by saying she had not ‘intended to deliberately insult the Islamic faith.’

What they are basically saying is that victims and their ‘intentions’ are to blame for the injustices and barbarity of Islamic law.

Moreover, they are implying that if someone knew they were blaspheming, or if their actions or statements were so clearly blasphemous that they should have known better, then the death penalty or calls for their death are permissible - or at the very least understandable.

The smokescreen of ‘intent’ aims to conceal the real issue at hand, which is Islam in power, so their movement can go about its business as usual, so it can continue to hold millions of resisting people hostage to medievalism enshrined in constitutions and legal codes and enforced by religious and morality police, the militia, Sharia courts and the state.

Any life saved is despite Islamic law and because of a vast left, secular and humanist opposition movement in the Middle East and elsewhere, which refuses to kneel.

Clearly, when religion equals power, millions have no freedoms or rights worthy of 21 century humanity.

And until it is pushed back, our loved ones - like Parwiz, or the two sisters, Zohreh and Azar, who have hours ago been convicted of death by stoning by the Islamic supreme court in Iran for ‘adultery’ - will face a torturous death.

But not if we can help it.


Join a demonstration to demand the freedom of Parwiz Kambakhsh on Friday, February 8, 2008, 12.00 to 2.00 pm at the Afghanistan Embassy, 31 Princes Gate, London, SW7 organised by the Iranian Secular Society and endorsed by the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain. You can also send letters of protest to Afghan officials by going to: http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/2008/01/call-for-immediate-release-of-afghan.html

To defend Zohreh and Azar and oppose stoning and the death penalty, go to: http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/2008/02/zohreh-and-azar-must-not-be-stoned-to.html

Deborah said...

b) Refrain from posting about Christianity for the sake of peace and ignore Jews who desperately need a Torah lifeline?

I like (b). You'll be teaching your Jewish brethren Torah, while teaching others Torah, too, which is what I desire.

However, I'm sure questions and/or disagreement will arise from time to time based on how Torah and other portions of the Tanakh are being interpreted, not because Christians are defending their position because criticism is directed at them and their so-called errant beliefs. Don't rabbis and learned Jews debate the interpretation of Torah all the time? There are what, 70 different senses or interpretations for every passage Scripture?

BK, uphold the Torah, the standard, and let controversy swell around it rather than upholding controversy and trying to reign it in using Torah. Defend Torah based on Torah rather than criticizing Christians based on Torah. If inadvertent criticism comes from questioning another's interpretation of Torah, that's the kind of debate all of us can understand and appreciate, but no more overt criticism. I love the Jewish people and haven't an inkling to criticize them... I apologize for inadvertently doing so in the past, please forgive me - its certainly not in my heart to criticize or condemn them!

Besides, it's difficult to post a position against Christianity when "Christianity" in your mind is Catholicism for the most part. If you want to correctly delineate and direct criticism against Catholicism and the orthodox churches (which are Greek in nature) that are [very] anti-Semitic and are responsible for creating a proverbial monster that chews up Jews and spits them out, go right ahead... most of your non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian friends will tell you how right you are! As Jungle Mom said, and I've said, before, "We are not Catholic." Jungle Mom and I, and others, have told you we want to learn the Jewish/Hebraic roots of our faith, we want to strip away the Greco-Roman (Hellenized-Romanized) theology and doctrine we've been taught, which removed the beauty of Torah and its intricately woven mysteries from its knowledge-base by the middle or end of the 2nd century CE. Yes, we may disagree whether or not Yeshua is HaMashiach, but that doesn't change what the Torah/Tanakh has said, it is a matter of how Torah is interpreted. I don't want to have to ask you not to compare me to a Catholic, I want to learn Torah. Baruch Hashem!

G-d bless you, BK!

Shalom!
Deborah

Eitan said...

I agree with Deborah. She's on the right track, methinks...

Brooke said...

Post whatever the hell you want to; it's your blog. If anyone doesn't like it, they don't have to read/comment.

Delta said...

I agree with Deborah, and I agree that it's your blog, post what you wish...I do not see the two as separate, but agreeing.

Also, if what I have posted has offended, I ask forgiveness. It was in an attempt to bring peace, not to cause problems.

Mad Zionist said...

What Brooke said. Your blog, so let it fly.

The problem with the hostile Christians you speak of is that they know deep down their arguments won't hold water, their rationale is hollow, and their connection to Judaism fraudulent. You have seen the evidence of this crystal clear on my site, how they can plug their ears, close their eyes, and repeat the same tired, beaten arguments over and over again hoping for a different result.

Of course, the fact that every time they repeat the lunacy, and are refuted conclusively over and over again, you can only look at their determination with amazement. They will say 2 + 2 = 7 over and over again, and no matter how often you prove that it's really 4 they continue insisting it's 7. Incredible.

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