Monday, November 12, 2007

Apocalyptic Trigger


Throughout history, the Jewish yardstick for measuring events or world developpments was 'but is it good for the Jews?'. Now that the world is about to decide a very harsh and bad decree for the Jews, namely the division of Jerusalem, it is time for the West to ask itself 'but is it good for the West?'.

As we all know, the West is locked in a life and death struggle with the Islamic world. There are literally hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, of jihadist Muslims in Europe, Canada and the United States who are ready to fulfill Muhammad's command to fight 'until all men say that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His prophet'. These people hate Western civilization and are ready to conquer to world for Allah. Could giving up half of Jerusalem to be a 'Palestinian' capital possibly diffuse their rage and frustration towards the US as some American policy-makers believe?

Jerusalem had little significance in early Islam and many imams and Islamic leaders warned against giving Jerusalem special status as this would be bid'ah, innovation, which is forbidden in Islam. Controversial Islamic jurist Tadiqq al-Din ibn Taymiyya whose views still inspire Wahabbi groups like al-Qaeda and was very influential in matters of jihad wrote: "And in Jersualem, there is not a palce one calls sacred and the same holds true for the tombs of Hebron". However, in later Islamic apocalyptic tradition, Sunni and Shia, Jerusalem gained an important position as either the capital of the Mahdi (Islamic messiah), or a necessary city to capture before his coming.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, president of Iran, is associated with a Shiite sect which views Jerusalem as essential for the coming of the Mahdi. Ahmainejad's famous 'Israel must be wiped off the map' speech was given on Oct. 26, 2005. He also declared that 'we are now in the process of an historical war between the World of Arrogance (ie. the West) and the Islamic world. Clearly, a connection exists for him between the destruction of Israel, the Islamic conquest of Jerusalem and the eventual defeat of the West by the Mahdi. According to certain Shiite doctrine, the Mahdi will appear in Mecca, move to Karbala and eventually conquer Jerusalem which will serve as his capital and as the base for the Mahdi's global jihad.

Such views are not unique to Shiism and are very widespread in Wahabbi and Salafi jihadist websites. "Rasulullah [Muhammad] said: "Armies carrying black flags will come from Khurasan. No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Eela (Baitul Maqdas in Jerusalem) where they will erect their flags." (Tirmidhi as quoted by Mohammed Ali Ibn Zubair Ali, Signs of Qiyamah) The Mahdis armies will march to Jerusalem and conquer the Baitul Maqdas (Beit Hamikdash, Temple Mount), conquer Israel and eventually the world. In a particularly venomous manner, Egyptian authors, Muhammad ibn Izzat and Muhammd ‘Arif comment on the above tradition:

The Mahdi will be victorious and eradicate those pigs and dogs and the idols of this time so that there will once more be a caliphate based on prophethood as the hadith states… Jerusalem will be the location of the rightly guided caliphate and the center of Islamic rule, which will be headed by Imam al-Mahdi… That will abolish the leadership of the Jews… and put an end to the domination of the Satans who spit evil into people and cause corruption in the earth, making them slaves of false idols and ruling the world by laws other than the Shari’a [Islamic Law] of the Lord of the worlds.

Every single concession in the face of Islam has been met with more terror and violence. Suicide bombigns only started after the Oslo Accords. Rockets began falling on Sderot after the Gaza Disengagement. The Israeli withdrawal from Southern Lebanon led to the Second Lebanon War in 2006. This alone should serve as testimony to why Islam must be answered with strength and not retreat but besides this, Islamic control over Jerusalem will embolden jihadists and prove to them that their struggle is successful. When the millions of jihadist Muslims in Europe hear of Islamic control over Jerusalem and have their faith in the appearance of the Mahdi vindicated, there will be riots in the streets, bombs, explosions and attempts to greet the Mahdi with a subjugated Europe under sharia. In short, Jerusalem will become a powder keg for an emboldened jihadist movement which will gain strength in Iraq, Afghanistan, Europe and all over the Islamic world. The Bush Administration, while trying to supress Islamic terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, will create an umbearable situation all over the world.

Another portent of the 'Hour', the time of the Mahdi's coming, is the massacre of the Jews. Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." (Sahi Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 178). When jihadists take over Jerusalem, no Jew worldwide will be safe. The already besieged Jews of Europe will most likely be attacked by Muslim hordes and a weakened Israel will not be able to protect them. Pogroms will happen through the streets of Europe. This is not far-fetched at all. Look at the evil barbarism committed to Ilan Halimi, a French Jew who was abducted by a Muslim gang and tortured for over a month and eventually set on fire. His captors repeatedly called his parents and read them Qur'anic verses and demanded money from the local synagogue.

Jerusalem will be the trigger for a worldwide Islamic attack on Jews, on Europe, on the United States. The West must think clearly and not cede one inch to Islam, especially in such a vulnerable place as Jerusalem. Instead of extinguishing the flames of radical Islam, they will be ignited into a fiery inferno that will consume Israel, the Jewish people, and the West.


Cross-posted to Goat's Barnyard

See Heidianne's amazing post also.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wow. I came to your blog from parallelsidewalk and have been reading it but this is really quite extreme. I converted to Islam a while back, married a Palestinian Muslim, lost interest in Islam and went back to Catholicism without my wife or her family trying to murder me as an apostate. In my experience, although the Muslim community in the US leaves much to be desired I highly doubt should Jerusalem be shared with the Palestinians "millions" of Muslims will rise up to force sharia on everyone.

I was just wondering what you might think of these two posts by an Israeli Jewish woman who has served in the IDF.
http://eumelia.livejournal.com/253305.html
http://eumelia.livejournal.com/255006.html

From what I understand you are still young and God willing time and wisdom will move you back from such extremes, I know how much I've changed since I was in high school.

The Frank Family said...

If Islam is to take over the West let them start in the Midwest of the US. We're armed and ready. Our government may not always have the will to fight but the free men and women of our country will never back down and will never be dominated. They will see what happens when you try to supress someone who is free. The people of Israel should never be asked to give up a single inch of the land promised to them by God Almighty.

Yankee Doodle said...

These guys understand strength, and that alone is what they respect. To them, there is no difference between respect and fear. Israel or the US survives as long as it is strong.

WomanHonorThyself said...

spot on Bar!..and YD is so correct..Koah!..just like Bar Kochva had!!

The Hermit said...

That is extremely well written and makes perfect sense to me.

personalrep1 said...

GOD VERSUS ALLAH (THE ANTI – GOD)
By:
Larry Houle
www.godofreason.com
intermedusa@yahoo.com

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT ISLAM IS TOTALLY BOGUS

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT ISLAM IS A TOTAL SHAM AND FRAUD

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT ALLAH NEVER EXISTED

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT MUHAMMAD NEVER RECEIVED ANY REVELATIONS FROM ALLAH
HOW DO WE KNOW THAT ISLAM WAS CREATED BY MUHAMMAD

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THE KORAN IS NOT THE WORD/TEACHINGS OF ALLAH

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THE TEACHINGS OF THE KORAN ARE THE TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD NOT ALLAH

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT MUHAMMAD WAS ALLAH (THE ANTI – GOD)

A DETAILED ANALYSIS OF EVIL IN THE NAME OF GOD

ISLAM IS THE TEACHINGS OF THE EVIL MUHAMMAD NOT OF ANY GOD. BEING THE CREATION OF A MAN, ISLAM IS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY BOGUS – A SHAM AND A FRAUD

ONE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE BUT TWO DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT CONCEPTIONS


The universe is a huge entity stretching 14 billion years x 2 trillion miles (distance light travels in one year). Just in the Milky Way alone, there is an estimated 1 billion planets. In this immensity, there must be many life forms who like Homo Sapiens - exercise Free Will. While there is only one God of the universe, there is for mankind (homo sapiens) two dramatically different conceptions of God – there is God and then there is ALLAH (THE ANTI – GOD).

CONCEPTION OF GOD

For most of mankind - there is God - the Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Glorious Exalted Creator of the Universe, a God of All Peace, Love, Goodness and Mercy - an All Wise, All Loving God for all mankind.

ALLAH (THE ANTI – GOD)

For Muslims - there is Allah – the ANTI – GOD.

Allah is the ANTI - GOD worshiped by 1.2 billion Muslims. Allah is the ANTI – GOD of war, murder, killing, death and destruction, violence, rape, slavery, torture, hate, terror, brutality, savagery, maiming, stoning, cutting off limbs, mutilations, looting and pillaging, extortion, sexual depravity, child molestation, intolerance, bigotry, sharia law, oppression and subordination of women, inferiority of woman, women as instruments of sexual pleasure in paradise, wife beating, honor killings, inequality of infidels, inequality of any human being, that infidels can be murdered and their property stolen as a holy duty, that Muslims who renounce Islam can be killed, that Muslims (or anyone) who challenge the teachings of Islam can be murdered, that believers who slay and are slain in the service of God will ascend to a sexual Paradise of big eyed, big breasted virgins who they can sexually molest for all eternity

THE KORAN IS NOT THE WORD/TEACHINGS OF GOD. THE KORAN IS A BOOK OF EVIL WHICH BLASPHEMES AND IS A VERY GREAT SIN AGAINST GOD

The greatest evil that anyone can commit is acts of violence against human beings in the name of and to the greater glory of God. The second greatest evil that can be committed is to preach evil in the name of God inciting violence against human beings.

ALL TEACHINGS OF GOD - A PERFECT GOD - MUST BE PERFECT. ANY WRITINGS IN ANY RELIGIOUS TEXT THAT ARE NOT PERFECT – ARE NOT PERFECTION - ARE NOT THE TEACHINGS OF GOD BUT THE TEACHINGS OF MAN

In order for the Koran to be the divine word of God - every word, every teaching must be PERFECT. Since God is PERFECT every word, every teaching of God – A PERFECT GOD must be PERFECT. If only one word, one teaching is not PERFECTION then the entire Koran is not a work of PERFECTION and therefore not the word/work of God. God cannot have some PERFECT teachings and other teachings that are IMPERFECT. In order to be the divine word of God, the entire Koran must be a work of PERFECTION – the PERFECT word/teachings of a PERFECT God. All teachings in the Koran and all Islamic texts (written or verbal) that are not PERFECT – that are not PERFECTION are not the teachings of God - A PERFECT GOD but the teachings of man – the teachings of Muhammad (ALLAH) – The Anti God

This means that all teachings recorded in the Koran and all other Islamic texts, revelations, writings, sayings, fatwa’s of war, murder, killing, death and destruction, violence, terror, rape, hate, violent jihad, terrorism, torture, brutality, savagery, maiming, wife beating, inferiority of woman, women as instruments of sexual pleasure in paradise, honor killings, stoning, cutting off limbs, child sex, sharia law, bigotry, intolerance, extortion, slavery, mutilations, looting, pillaging, sexual depravity, child molestation, oppression and subordination of women, inferiority of woman, women as instruments of sexual pleasure in paradise, wife beating, honor killings, inequality of infidels, inequality of any human being, that infidels can be murdered and their property stolen as a holy duty, that Muslims who renounce Islam can be killed, that Muslims (or anyone) who challenge the teachings of Islam can be murdered, that believers who slay and are slain in the service of God will ascend to a sexual Paradise of big eyed, big breasted virgins who they can sexually molest for all eternity etc are evil and irrational AND NOT THE PERFECT TEACHINGS OF GOD – A PERFECT GOD – A GOD OF ALL PURE LOVE AND PEACE, GOODNESS AND MERCY – BUT THE TEACHINGS OF ALLAH – THE ANTI GOD – THE TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD

No God who is God would ever preach that killing and murdering of any human being in His name will be rewarded by accession to Paradise. You cannot climb to heaven on the corpses of the murdered. Infidels can be murdered by Muslims as an ETERNAL LAW OF GOD. Not only can they all be murdered but the wives and daughters of the murdered infidels can be taken as booty, raped, and then sold as slaves. That’s right - God permits the raping of female slaves. Indeed in Islam - rape is not a only a sexual weapon – it is a weapon of war. Having murdered the woman’s man, Muslims can now - sanctioned by the law of God complete their final humiliation and domination of her body. Her sons can be sold into slavery. If there is any doubt as to the boy’s age of puberty - Muslims can pull down their pants and inspect their genital area for hairs. Even the slightest sign of hair growth means that these young men can be taken and beheaded. These infidel women can then be bred like cattle and their off spring sold for profit. As an ETERNAL LAW OF GOD, Muslims can then loot and pillage the property of the murdered infidels, and must share 1/5 of the booty obtained from the sale of boys and women and the proceeds of looting with God. Muslims can own slaves as an ETERNAL LAW OF GOD. Slavery has been an integral institutionalized part of Islam since it’s creation by Muhammad. Muhammad owned 40 slaves. Muhammad was allowed by a ETERNAL LAW OF God to rape his slaves ALL THIS EVIL ARE THE LAWS OF GOD AS SET DOWN IN THE KORAN. Not only that but righteous Muslims who slay and are slain in the service of God can ascend as martyrs to the evil sexually depraved Islamic Paradise of eternal hard - ons and virgins who re - generate as virgins after each sex act. THIS IS THEIR ETERNAL REWARD FOR OBEYING THESE EVIL LAWS OF GOD.

No God who is God would ever create a depraved Paradise full of big breasted, big eyed, sexual nymphs for suicide bombers, terrorists, murderers to molest for all eternity. If God commanded that infidels (or any other human being) be killed then he would be irrational and evil and no longer PERFECT - no longer God. If any teaching of God incites violence that leads to the killing of any human being then God is an accomplice to murder and therefore no longer God. No God who is God would ever teach His believers to rape unbelievers, loot their property, sell them in to slavery and then share 1/5 of the proceeds with God. To have God go to war on behalf of His religion and believers is an obscenity and a very great sin against God. To have God send angels into battle as instruments of war, death and destruction is an obscenity against God. To record in a so called Holy Book – the Koran - teachings of the rules of war, slavery, looting, pillaging, hate, terror, etc is a very great evil. Just declaring that such evil teachings in the Koran are the divine word of God is evil incarnate and an obscenity against everything God stands for – a blasphemy and a very great evil against God himself. KILLING, MURDER, SLAUGHTER, RAPE, LOOTING ARE ALL CRIMES TO ALL NORMAL RATIONAL HUMAN BEINGS. MURDER IS NOT A MULTI CULTURAL DIFFERENCE. RELIGION IS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT THE BEST OF MANKIND NOT THE WORST.

Therefore the Koran is not the word/teachings of God.

NOT ONE WORD IN THE KORAN OR ANY OTHER ISLAMIC TEXT IS FROM GOD. NO GOD WHO IS TRULY GOD WOULD EVER SPEW SUCH PURE HATRED AND INTOLERANCE. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER CREATE A RELIGION OF WAR, DEATH AND DESTRUCTION. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER PREACH TEACHINGS OF MURDER, TORTURE, AND CRUELTY. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER SANCTION MURDERING PEOPLE AND THEN STEALING THEIR PROPERTY. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER ALLOW ANY HUMAN BEING TO BE THE SLAVE OF ANOTHER. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER TEACH THAT WOMEN AND CHILDREN CAN BE SOLD INTO SLAVERY AS PROCEEDS OF WAR BOOTY. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER DEMAND THE PROCEEDS OF WAR BOOTY, LOOTING AND PILLAGING. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER TEACH THE RAPE OF SLAVE WOMEN. AGAIN AS STATED ABOVE - NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER TEACH THAT INFIDELS CAN BE MURDERED AS A HOLY DUTY, THAT MUSLIMS WHO RENOUNCE ISLAM CAN BE KILLED, THAT MUSLIMS (OR ANYONE) WHO CHALLENGE THE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM CAN BE MURDERED. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER PREACH THAT KILLING AND MURDERING OF ANY HUMAN BEING IN HIS NAME WILL BE REWARDED BY ACCESSION TO PARADISE. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER CREATE A SEXUAL PARADISE OF BIG BREASTED, BIG EYED VIRGIN NYMPHS FOR SUICIDE BOMBERS, TERRORISTS, MURDERERS TO MOLEST FOR ALL ETERNITY. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER DEMONIZE, OPPRESS AND SUBORDINATE WOMEN MAKEING THEM TOTALLY INFERIOR TO MEN – WORTH ½ A HUMAN BEING. NO GOD WHO IS GOD WOULD EVER SEND AN EVIL, CRIMINAL LIKE MUHAMMAD AS HIS PROPHET TO CREATE A RELIGION TO TERRORIZE MANKIND. THE ALLAH OF THE KORAN NEVER EXISTED EXCEPT IN THE MIND OF MUHAMMAD. THERE NEVER WERE ANY REVELATIONS FROM ALLAH TO MUHAMMAD. THE KORAN IS THE TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD - THE TEACHINGS OF ALLAH - THE ANTI-GOD. BEING THE TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD AND NOT GOD - ISLAM IS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY BOGUS - A SHAM AND A FRAUD

The above LAWS OF ALLAH destroys Islam's religious credentials, Muhammad's authority, and Allah's credibility. ALLAH justifying violent criminal acts to satisfy a prophet's financial lust is unfathomable. If we are to believe Muhammad, ALLAH approved murder, terror, thievery, and kidnapping for ransom. This is immoral. An immoral god cannot be trusted. An immoral deity isn't worthy of a religion, devotion, sacrifice, or martyrdom.

The same is true for an immoral prophet. The only thing more devastating than a man professing situational scriptures to legitimize terror, murder, robbery, and kidnapping for ransom is to lure billions to their doom by implying these words were inspired by God. Islam was nothing more than a cover for immoral financial gain. Muhammad was a murderous con man.

There have been millions of murderers, millions of kidnappers, millions of terrorists. There have been millions of sexual predators. Thieves are a dime a dozen. And there have been a score of men who have done these things while claiming to be anointed by God. Yet only one invented a "religion" and falsified "scripture" to satiate his demonic cravings. This is why Muhammad, Islam's lone prophet, qualifies as the most evil man to have ever lived.

Brooke said...

I agree totally... When all Hell breaks loose in the world, the nexus will be Jerusalem.

najistani said...

From http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com/2006/01/mohammed-child-molestor-or-perfect-man.html

"Islam is not about right and wrong thinking but correct behaviour. If one imitated the behaviours of Mohammed, then one is observant and submissive. Morality, whether we understand this or not, is not a part of Islam.

If there is a more fundamental difference between Islam and all other creeds and religions I do not know of it. It is so alien that the reader will have to consider its implications for some time to grasp the full meaning of it.

There is no morality to be had in Islam. There is no such thing as truth. There is only the will of Allah. "

Anonymous said...

http://www.christian-bible.com/Ethics/lj.three.rabbis.htm

RHR (as I will refer to Rabbis for Human Rights from now on) began in 1989 as a response to the first Palestinian Intifada (uprising). Six rabbis, two from each stream of Judaism, launched the organization, which at first focused only on protesting and seeking to rectify violations of human rights suffered by Palestinians at the hands of the Israeli government. While opposing the violence of the first Intifada, RHR sought both to defend the human rights of Palestinians as children of the one God, and also to remind Jewish Israelis that their Jewish religious tradition requires respecting the human dignity of every person, whether Jewish or not.

...

Especially in East Jerusalem, Palestinians were being denied building permits to construct homes on their own property, or to renovate their homes in order to accommodate growing families. This policy of the Israeli authorities, which has simply been a tactic to put pressure on Palestinians to sell their land, clearly violates the civil liberties of Palestinian property owners. Moreover, RHR argues that demolishing homes because Palestinians lack building permits, which Israeli officials refuse without good reason to give them, is a cynical and sinful practice that not only harms Palestinians, but also demeans the Jewish tradition of justice.

..

The rabbis and lay Jews who persist in the work of RHR believe strongly that the soul of Judaism is at stake in facing the injustice of the occupation. Rabbi Bandel reminded us of the story of Hillel, who was challenged to state the Jewish commandments while standing on one leg. His response was, "What you do not want done to you, do not do to others. The rest is commentary." Added to this teaching, Rabbi Bandel said, is the repeated admonition in the Torah to Jews to remember that God took care of them when they were slaves in Egypt. Therefore, they are commanded to take care of non-Jews living among them.

When asked why these teachings are not being respected by religious Israeli settlers, who are abusing Palestinians today and stealing their land, Rabbi Bandel replied, "If you want to base a racist platform on Jewish sources, it’s very easy."

When the Israeli Supreme Court banned Rabbi Kahane from running for the Knesset, because his platform was racist, Kahane created a new platform that was completely made up of quotations from the Torah, the Mishnah, the Talmud, and Maimonides. "You can find horrible sayings from our sages," Rabbi Bandel said. But these sayings should be interpreted in their own context.

...

He quoted the famous passage from the prophet Micah: "What does the LORD require of you, but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" (6:8) For Rabbi Bandel, and for all the members of RHR, this prophetic emphasis on moral righteousness, rather than on religious ritual, is at the heart of how they read Jewish scripture.

But this witness in scripture is not limited to the Prophets, for it is found in the very beginning of the Torah. The creation story affirms that every person is made in the image of God. (Gen. 1:27) The Torah does not begin by saying that Jews have privileges that other peoples do not have, but suggests that God cares for every person on earth regardless of his or her race or religion.

For Rabbi Bandel, this fundamental principle at the beginning of the Torah must be applied in reading the rest of the Torah, and also in interpreting the Talmud, which was written later as a commentary on the Torah. He quoted a story from the second chapter of the Palestinian Talmud that illustrates what it means for a Jew to read the Torah in this way.

When the disciples of a rabbi brought him a donkey purchased from a Gentile, they explained with glee that they had found a jewel hidden on the donkey worth far more than the price paid for the animal. The rabbi’s response was to ask them if the seller knew of the jewel at the time of the sale. When the disciples confirmed that the seller was ignorant of what he had lost in the transaction, the rabbi instructed his disciples to return the jewel to the seller.

By taking advantage of the Gentile’s ignorance, the rabbi said, they had not only committed a moral sin, but had desecrated God’s name. For the Gentile, when he learned of their unjust profit, would attribute their greed to their God. In this sense, Rabbi Bandel explained, the work of RHR is not only about ethics, but involves sanctifying the name of God.

When Jews violate the human rights of Palestinians, even with the good intention of ensuring greater security for Jews living within Israel, they desecrate the name of God. On the other hand, when Jews do what is just, for Palestinians as well as for Jews, they sanctify the name of God.

...

Although for many years he endorsed the idea of a Jewish, democratic state, which almost all members of RHR continue to affirm, he now believes a Jewish state cannot be democratic. For requiring a Jewish majority means preferring the rights of Jews to the rights of those who are not Jewish, in order to maintain Jewish dominance.

For Rabbi Milgrom, what the Jewish state has done to the Bedouins, and to the Palestinians as well, has convinced him that the Zionist dream of a Jewish democracy will inevitably be a oppressive tragedy for the peoples within Israel, who are not Jewish.

His primary example of the moral dilemma facing Jews is their position on the right of return. Jews claim for all Jews in the world, whether they have ever lived in Israel or not, the right to come to Israel and be full citizens, simply because they are Jewish. For Palestinians, however, Jews refuse to acknowledge their right of return, even though many Palestinians were living in what is now Israel, and were driven unjustly from their homes during the 1947-48 war.

Zionism, for Rabbi Milgrom, cannot be democratic, unless it supports the right of return for both Jews and Palestinians, and Zionists cannot do this, because too many Palestinians might return to Israel and become a majority, which would threaten the Jewish nature of Israel. A Jewish, democratic state, he believes is a contradiction in terms, and for evidence he simply points to the policies of the Israeli government over the past half century.

...

Yet, Rabbi Milgrom sees the issue as not simply political, but also as religious, and perhaps even as fundamentally religious. He would argue, I believe, that a secularized Israel is not realistic, at least in the near future. So, the battle for a democratic state of Israel must be waged with the weapons of religious texts, and with their interpretation and application to the present reality.

He embraces a one state solution, permitting the right of return of Palestinians as well as Jews, and a democratic process that would not privilege the Jewish tradition as an established religion. He fully understands that this would lead to a Jewish minority within the state of Israel, but he has no trouble facing that future. For he believes the ethical and spiritual character of Judaism was preserved more authentically when Jews were a minority, than under the present state of Israel.

Now Jews tout national security as the most fundamental of God’s commandments, when actually a proper reading of scripture, be argues, should lead Jews to embrace pacifism. When the Israelites ask Samuel to give them a king, Samuel tells them that God is their king. Later, when King David abuses his power, by killing Uriah so he can marry Uriah’s wife, the lovely Bathsheba, God sends Nathan to call David to account. At the heart of Jewish scripture is a God who commands justice. Nowhere in scripture, as Rabbi Milgrom reads it, does God command support for a Jewish state.

...

He gave two reasons for the founding of RHR. First, the response of the Israeli government and its armed forces to the first Intifada included the mistreatment of Palestinians that threatened the prophetic ethical teachings of Judaism. "So, first and foremost," Rabbi Rosen said, "we sought to defend the essence of Judaism, where we felt it was being sullied."

Secondly, "we wanted to assert that human rights applied to all people regardless of religion or race or nationality." The founders of RHR believed that the very integrity of a political and legal system is undermined, if for reasons of security the rights of some of its citizens, or the rights of those deserving the legal protection of the government, are ignored and denied.

In this sense, both the ideals of Zionism and democracy were put to the test by the response of the Israeli government and society to the first Intifada.

Overall, Rabbi Rosen feels, the justice system of Israel had maintained its integrity, except when the concern for security has been allowed to justify actions by the government that are clearly contrary to international human rights law. Sadly, when military experts assert that certain actions are necessary for the security of the state, the courts and the Knesset are inclined to defer rather than raise questions.

Jewish religious teaching clearly requires that the means, as well as the ends, be just. So, RHR was organized to defend a view of Zionism that adhered to this high ethical standard. "All the rabbis who joined RHR were deeply committed to the well-being and future of Israel," Rabbi Rosen said. "We saw Zionism not simply as a political program, but as developing the spiritual life of the Jewish people."

Thus, government policies that deny human rights are not merely a violation of international law. "The failure to protect human rights is a desecration of Jewish ethical teaching."

...

This may, in part, explain why the settlers have been allowed by Israeli society to behave so badly. Most Israelis, Rabbi Rosen believes, who would describe themselves as mainstream or as traditional Jews, have very mixed feelings about the religious settlers. "On the one hand they admire the commitment and dedication of these settlers, but also they recognize that their zealousness has led to what I would call a form of idolatry."

The place of Jews on the land must be a means of becoming the just nation that Israel is commanded to be, and not merely an end in itself. "For making means into ends is exactly what idolatry is."

The settlers, of course, look to religious texts to justify their theft of Palestinian lands, but Jews who are committed to a just Israel must argue that other texts, which command that Jews protect the human rights of all people, are more central in Jewish teaching.

Yet, Rabbi Rosen believes, this religious issue will be decided primarily by politics, which is why the disengagement from Gaza and the removal of settlements there is as much a theological issues as a political struggle. Because possessing the land is seen as justifying the theology of the religious settlements, the political decision to remove these people from the land will fatally undermine their claim.

This is why, despite the present trauma of both Israelis and Palestinians, Rabbi Rosen expressed optimism. Moreover, he said, this is precisely the time that the voice of RHR needs to be heard, for it offers an alternative vision for Israeli Jews. "When I speak of our ethical values, I mean first and foremost that every human being is created in the image of God. Moreover, I would go further and say that, if we don’t behave in accordance with this value, we are not truly Jewish."

In this sense, Rabbi Rosen said, "if Israel is not truly democratic, Israel is not truly Jewish." The character of democracy reflects the fundamental teachings of Judaism, yet it is necessary that the state be secular and not a theocracy. A Jewish majority will not undermine the democracy of Israel, he believes, so long as this majority is true to the essential values of the Jewish tradition.

Bar Kochba said...

So many comments! Just a few things:
1) I would appreciate if people wouldn't simply copy-paste but actually respond to what I have to say. Copy-paste is pretty obnoxious.
2) Don't be condescending to me because of my age. Tell me whether my opinion is right or wrong, based on facts, not my age.

Anonynous #1: Having sharia forced upon us isn't so far-fetched. Hamas, al-Qaeda, Hizbullah and all those guys aim to conquer the world in the name of Islam. CAIR's head, Ibrahim Hooper, has said that he wishes to see the US under sharia. In a poll, 40% of British Muslims have said that they would like to live under sharia. Coupled with a vindication of the coming of the Mahdi with Islamic conquest of Jerusalem, it is very possible that this will tip the scale in the ever-approaching civil war in Europe.

Anonymous #2: Just another example of how the Left has reduced religion to a simply 'be nice'. Of course justice is an extremely important part of Judaism. 'Justice, justice ye shall pursue' (Deut. 16:20). However,

'To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: {P}

2 {S} A time to be born, {S} and a time to die; {N}
{S} a time to plant, {S} and a time to pluck up that which is planted; {N}
3 {S} A time to kill, {S} and a time to heal; {N}
{S} a time to break down, {S} and a time to build up; {N}
4 {S} A time to weep, {S} and a time to laugh; {N}
{S} a time to mourn, {S} and a time to dance; {N}
5 {S} A time to cast away stones, {S} and a time to gather stones together; {N}
{S} a time to embrace, {S} and a time to refrain from embracing; {N}
6 {S} A time to seek, {S} and a time to lose; {N}
{S} a time to keep, {S} and a time to cast away; {N}
7 {S} A time to rend, {S} and a time to sew; {N}
{S} a time to keep silence, {S} and a time to speak; {N}
8 {S} A time to love, {S} and a time to hate; {N}
{S} a time for war, {S} and a time for peace. {N}'
(Ecclesiastes 3:1-8)

The Jewish people want peace but despite this, there is a time for war, a time for hatred, a time to kill, a time to destroy. Every single aspect is appropriate in its own time. It is far more important for Israel to be a Jewish state (a Jewish democracy for Jews based on Judaism) than to be a liberal Western democracy, 'a state of all its citizens'. 'Do not be overly righteous' (Eccl. 7:16). If you want to argue religion, we will.

Mainmonides (Hilchot Melachim 6:11) says: "If they make peace and accept the 7 Noahide laws we do not kill them for they are tributary. If they agreed to pay tribute but do not accept servitude or accepted servitude but not atribute we do not acquiesce until they have accepted both. And servitude means that they shall be humble and low and not raise their head in Israel. Rather they shall be subjects under us and not be appointed to any position over Jews ever". In short, Israel belongs to the Jews and non-Jews in Israel have full (human) rights in the land but no (political) rights over the land.

Rabbi Rosen should pick up a Tanach and Talmud and hitch himself over to the nearest kosher synagogue or beit midrash.

Anonymous said...

An excellent choice, Ecclesiastes, that is certainly one of my favorites. I think also applicable is Chapter 4 Verses 1-4:

Again I considered all the oppressions that take place under the sun: the tears of the victims with none to comfort them! From the hand of their oppressors comes violence, and there is none to comfort them! And those now dead, I declared more fortunate in death than are the living to be still alive. And better off than both is the yet unborn, who has not seen the wicked work that is done under the sun. Then I saw that all toil and skillful work is the rivalry of one man for another. This also is vanity and a chase after wind.

I am not being condescending to your age, only mentioning plain fact, we all change much over the years if God blesses us with time, it would be a said thing if in our teenage years we attained all the perfection in widom and opinions we would ever have. Perhaps I am wrong but there are no teenage rabbis and everything you cite, you cite from others, not due to personal experience with Muslims or by intrepid research finding out their fiendish plans of world domination.

Please cite for me where Hamas, Al Qaeda, Hizbullah, Ibrahim Hooper have expressed their desires to conquer the world and impose Sharia. I simply cannot see how you have any supporting "facts" to show that sharing Jerusalem would lead to civil war in Europe. The great majority of rational human beings can read such a claim and see them for scare tactics they are.

In verses you cited from Ecclesiastes there is no mention of a time to be unjust, neither hate nor war excuse being unjust. As you no doubt know, the majority of Jews in Israel and elsewhere are secular. In your Jewish democracy for Jews based on Judaism what shall be their status? I certainly do not intend to argue religion with you, I am still learning and my ignorance is far too great, especially when it comes to Judaism.

I do wonder how what you cited from Maimonides is Muslims classifying all non-Muslims as dhimmis. While I'm at it, I've only read one book by Ibn Taymiyya but I wonder where your quote of his comes from.

Israel is a lion in the Middle East, of that there is no doubt. In the wild a lion will attack an older and weaker lion with its own pride and kill or drive it off and take control of the pride. For a few years things will be good, the new head of the pride will kill or drive off any challengers. But everything ages and in time that lion will be killed or driven off by another or even several lions. This is the way of all life. Assuming the world doesn't end anytime soon then the US will not be on top forever. Our only security comes from God and being just to each other.

Bar Kochba said...

Hamas: "Islam will enter every house and will spread over the entire world," says Hamas leader Al-Zahar.

Al-Qaeda: "And Allah hath full power and control over His affairs; but most among mankind know it not. (Koranic verse) "Our Lord! Give us good in this world and good in the Hereafter, and defend us from the torment of the Fire!" (Koranic verse) O God, I beseech you to strengthen the mujahidin everywhere, particularly in Palestine, Iraq, Kashmir, Chechnya, and Afghanistan. We beseech God to grant them success, to strengthen them, to unite their ranks, and to grant them victory over their enemies, especially since no one grants them victory except Almighty God. O God, we beseech you to put this nation's feet firmly on the right path in order to strengthen those who obey you and to humiliate those who disobey you. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds. (Koranic verse) May God's prayer and peace be on the last of prophets and messengers." -Bin Laden (Jan 4, 2004)

Ibrahim Hooper: "I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of
the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future...But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

I am not saying that every Muslim is violent or wishes to conquer the world. But many Muslims in polls have said that they wish to live under sharia, Hamas says it and they're about to gain control of Jerusalem! Anybody who knows the slightest about history and religion knows that Jerusalem is Jewish (see my previous post 'Body and Soul')! Never was Jerusalem the capital of any Muslim, much less Palestinian, empire or country. When the Ottoms ruled it, it was a backwater town and the Muslims used the Western Wall as a garbage dump!

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. Whether a Jew is religious, secular, Orthodox, Reform, Zionist, Chassidic... they are all Jews and we do not disriminate between Jews. Our Sages said (Shavuot 39a):
"All of Israel (the Jewish People) are guarantors for one another."
Sefer HaChinuch writes (Mitzva 243 [219]): "It is a mitzva to love every Jew deeply."

We are forbidden to be unjust except the Jewish version of justice is different from the Western one. We will be compassionate, kind, caring to the nations but in the matter of the Land of Israel, we must be willing to stand up for what belongs to us. If a thief breaks into your house and demands the keys, you don't search for 'pragmatic solution' or 'disengage' from the bedroom. You know that your home belongs to you and you dislodge this thief. Torah values dictate ba lehargecha, hashkem lehargo, if someone comes to kill you, kill them first.

What the Rambam writes is part-and-parcel with Judaism along with kashrut and shabbos. Israel belongs to the Jewish people. The difference between Jews and Muslims, (there are many but this is the most significant) is that Muslims are mandated by the Qur'an to conquer the world while we Jews only feel entitled to a narrow strip of land along the Mediterranean, less than 1% of the land in the Mid-East. Can we not even have that? There are hundreds of Christian countries, Islamic countries, 22 Arab countries (in Jordan and Saudi Arabia Jews cannot be citizens and in other countries they face severe restrictions) but we must share our ONE little land?

I do agree with you that our only security comes from G-d.
"Behold, the Guardian of Israel neither sleeps nor slumbers". (Psalm 121:4)
Amen!

Anonymous said...

That was a start, I was hoping to get exactly where you got those quotes from as well so I could evaluate for myself other things said. I don't see any clear cut calls for world domination by Muslims under Sharia law. Also this quote by Osam Bin Laden,

"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.

If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 - may Allah have mercy on them.

No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours."
http://www.worldpress.org/Americas/1964.cfm

Or put more succintly, in the words of the Jewish comedian David Cross, "If the terrorists hated freedom the Netherlands would be dust."

Also, Hamas is nowhere near to getting control of Jerusalem. Fatah may get some small of a small part of Jerusalem but most likely not. My wife's parents returned from spending the summer in Ramallah and from what they say everyone having anything to do with Hamas who is not in Gaza has been arrested or threatened. Before the Caliph Umar conquered Jerusalem, Jews were forbidden from Jerusalem all together and the Temple Mount was a trash dump as well, until Umar allowed the Jews to come back. Both Christianity and Islam share a history or unjustifiable crimes against the Jewish people.

I'm curious as to what your feelings are about Neturei Karta and the Satmar and all the Edah HaChareidis.

I would first like to say that while at one time I did consider myself a Muslim in time I came to see Islam as a completely manmade system with far too many internal contradictions. Still, you are incorrect about the Qur'an giving Muslims a mandate to conquer the world.

002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

Rely not on your wealth; say not: "I have the power." Rely not on your strength in following the desires of your heart. Say not: "Who can prevail against me?" for the LORD will exact the punishment.
Sirach Chapter 5 Verses 1-3

Bar Kochba said...

I'm no Islamic scholar, of course, but the actions of Islamic terorists in the name of Islam and the contents of many Islamic holy texts raise questions.

Traditionally, Islam divides the world between the Dar al-Islam (House of Islam) and the Dar al-Harb (House of War), meaning that all those who are not in the House of Islam must be fought. Muhammad even said so: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought." (Muslim:C9B1N31)

"Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'" (Bukhari:V4B53N386)

"Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."(Qur'an:8:39)

"So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."(Qur'an:8:39)

"He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'" (Ishaq:324)


I looked at your quotes and I found one problem. The jihad must end only when (Qur'an 2:193) "religion is for Allah", which means that Islam will be supreme. Not to mention the Law of Naksh which means that earlier verses are abrogated in favour of the newer ones. The peaceful verses were abrogated. This comes from the notorious Verse of the Sword, containing the injunction to “slay the unbelievers wherever you find them (v. 5). This is, understandably, a verse much beloved by present-day jihadists. In a 2003 sermon, Osama bin Laden rejoiced over this verse: “Praise be to Allah who revealed the verse of the Sword to his servant and messenger [the Prophet Muhammad], in order to establish truth and abolish falsehood.”
Ibn Juzayy notes that v. 5 abrogates “every peace treaty in the Qur’an,” and specifically abrogates 47:4’s directive to “set free or ransom” captive unbelievers. According to As-Suyuti, “This is an Ayat of the Sword which abrogates pardon, truce and overlooking” – that is, perhaps the overlooking of the pagans’ offenses. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn says that the Muslims must “slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam.”

Now about the Neturai Karta, they are a bunch of lunatics who have been denounced by every single Jewish denomination, including Satmar. I obviously disagree with Satmar but they are Jews like all other Jews. I respect their opinions though I think that Zionism is an intergral part of Judaism just like tefillin or prayer.

You say that you are a Catholic so you must believe in the Bible.

"And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land of thy sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." (Genesis 17:7-8) Hashem called hundreds of times the G-d of Israel and never the G-d of Palestine. If G-d promises the land to His children, you are you to oppose Him?

Anonymous said...

To answer the last first, we are all God's children, not just Jews, honored though they are. Who were the Romans or the Babylonians before them to take the Children of Israel out of the land that God had given them? Where is the a prophet from God to tell us what God wants at this time or another?

During his reign Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, moved against him, and Jehoiakim became his vassal for three years. Then Jehoiakim turned and rebelled against him. The LORD loosed against him bands of Chaldeans, Arameans, Moabites, and Ammonites; he loosed them against Judah to destroy it, as the LORD had threatened through his servants the prophets. This befell Judah because the LORD had stated that he would inexorably put them out of his sight for the sins Manasseh had committed in all that he did; and especially because of the innocent blood he shed, with which he filled Jerusalem, the LORD would not forgive.
2 Kings 24:1-4

I hope it does not seem too disingenous but I shall provide a quote from a Catholic priest on the subject as well.

"In the Old Testamen, as God formed Abraham and his descendants into his "Chosen People," he is believed to have particularly destined them for the territory which we no know as the state of Israel. The cohesiveness they would develop in relation to this land would be an important part of the many ways God would develop the theological and social conditions necessary to prepare for the coming, and for the work, of Jesus.

Some (most?) Jewish people feel this divine plan still gives a foundation for their claim to the land. My conviction, and, I believe, the position of any official statement by the Catholic Church, is that the Old Testament theological claim has little or no relevance to the present situation. Settlement of the problems must be on the same basis of political and social justices as might lead to the solution of any other such dispute - and that would include consideration o the history involved during the past 2,000 years as well as the time before Christ."

Just as you mention how Jews can disagree about the nature of Zionism and its place in Judaism, so too do I believe Muslims, can and do disagree about naskh (abrogation) and permissions to fight. There are and have been more than a few Muslim scholars who have disputed the idea of abrogation, more in recent times such as Khaled Abou El Fadl and Muhammad Asad, an Austrian Jew originally named Leopold Weiss. Opinions and interpretations change over time, otherwise Catholics would remain worse tormenters and persecuters of the Jewish people than any other group on Earth.

The quotes you mention have a context, they were directed at those the Muslims considered enemies at the time and not every other people in the world. Muslims were inveterate enemies of Arab polytheists, referred to in the Qur'an as mushrikeen or idolaters, kafirun or infidels, deniers of truth, zalimun or evildoers. These terms were not direct at Christians or Jews, referred as Ahl al Kitab, People of the Book. For instance, the Qur'anic sura Al Kafirun 109 is universally said to have been first revealed or perhaps made up and recited, in Mecca, where there were no significant groups of, if any, Christians or Jews. It is only later that these terms have been used to refer to every one else. Conversion or death was the only choices left to Arab polytheists, Muhammad did not persecute the Christians of Najran or the Jews of Yemen. It was only after the death of Muhammad that Jews were completely expelled from the Hedjaz and other areas.

008.036
YUSUFALI: The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve spend their wealth in order that they may debar (men) from the way of Allah. They will spend it, then it will become an anguish for them, then they will be conquered. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell,
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (people) from the way of Allah; so they shall spend it, then it shall be to them an intense regret, then they shall be overcome; and those who disbelieve shall be driven together to hell.

008.037
YUSUFALI: In order that Allah may separate the impure from the pure, put the impure, one on another, heap them together, and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost.
PICKTHAL: That Allah may separate the wicked from the good, The wicked will He place piece upon piece, and heap them all together, and consign them unto hell. Such verily are the losers.
SHAKIR: That Allah might separate the impure from the good, and put the impure, some of it upon the other, and pile it up together, then cast it into hell; these it is that are the losers.

008.038
YUSUFALI: Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).
PICKTHAL: Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).
SHAKIR: Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.

008.039
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

008.040
YUSUFALI: If they refuse, be sure that Allah is your Protector - the best to protect and the best to help.
PICKTHAL: And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Befriender - a Transcendent Patron, a Transcendent Helper!
SHAKIR: And if they turn back, then know that Allah is your Patron; most excellent is the Patron and most excellent the Helper.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html

Again, referring to Arab polytheists and not Christians or Jews.

022.067
YUSUFALI: To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way.
PICKTHAL: Unto each nation have We given sacred rites which they are to perform; so let them not dispute with thee of the matter, but summon thou unto thy Lord. Lo! thou indeed followest right guidance.
SHAKIR: To every nation We appointed acts of devotion which they observe, therefore they should not dispute with you about the matter and call to your Lord; most surely you are on a right way.

022.068
YUSUFALI: If they do wrangle with thee, say, "Allah knows best what it is ye are doing."
PICKTHAL: And if they wrangle with thee, say: Allah is Best Aware of what ye do.
SHAKIR: And if they contend with you, say: Allah best knows what you do.

022.069
YUSUFALI: "Allah will judge between you on the Day of Judgment concerning the matters in which ye differ."
PICKTHAL: Allah will judge between you on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein ye used to differ.
SHAKIR: Allah will judge between you on the day of resurrection respecting that in which you differ.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/022.qmt.html

005.041
YUSUFALI: O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.
PICKTHAL: O Messenger! Let not them grieve thee who vie one with another in the race to disbelief, of such as say with their mouths: "We believe," but their hearts believe not, and of the Jews: listeners for the sake of falsehood, listeners on behalf of other folk who come not unto thee, changing words from their context and saying: If this be given unto you, receive it, but if this be not given unto you, then beware! He whom Allah doometh unto sin, thou (by thine efforts) wilt avail him naught against Allah. Those are they for whom the Will of Allah is that He cleanse not their hearts. Theirs in the world will be ignominy, and in the Hereafter an awful doom;
SHAKIR: O Messenger! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.

005.042
YUSUFALI: (They are fond of) listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden. If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere. If thou decline, they cannot hurt thee in the least. If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity.
PICKTHAL: Listeners for the sake of falsehood! Greedy for illicit gain! If then they have recourse unto thee (Muhammad) judge between them or disclaim jurisdiction. If thou disclaimest jurisdiction, then they cannot harm thee at all. But if thou judgest, judge between them with equity. Lo! Allah loveth the equitable.
SHAKIR: (They are) listeners of a lie, devourers of what is forbidden; therefore if they come to you, judge between them or turn aside from them, and if you turn aside from them, they shall not harm you in any way; and if you judge, judge between them with equity; surely Allah loves those who judge equitably.

005.043
YUSUFALI: But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
PICKTHAL: How come they unto thee for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them)? Yet even after that they turn away. Such (folk) are not believers.
SHAKIR: And how do they make you a judge and they have the Taurat wherein is Allah's judgment? Yet they turn back after that, and these are not the believers.

005.044
YUSUFALI: It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
PICKTHAL: Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
SHAKIR: Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.

005.045
YUSUFALI: We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
PICKTHAL: And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.

005.046
YUSUFALI: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
PICKTHAL: And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).

005.047
YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.

005.048
YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.
SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html

060.007
YUSUFALI: It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: It may be that Allah will ordain love between you and those of them with whom ye are at enmity. Allah is Mighty, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those whom you hold to be your enemies among them; and Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

060.008
YUSUFALI: Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
PICKTHAL: Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
SHAKIR: Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

060.009
YUSUFALI: Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.
PICKTHAL: Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/060.qmt.html

As regarding abrogation, I quote from Muhammad Asad:

002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?
SHAKIR: Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?
The principle laid down in this passage (2:106)- relating to the suppression of the Biblical dispensation by that of the Qur'an - has given rise to an erroneous interpretation by many Muslim theologians. The word ayah ("message") occurring in this context is also used to denote a "verse" of the Qur'an (because every one of these verses contains a message). Taking this restriced meaning of the term ayah, some scholars conclude from the above passage that certain verses of the Qur'an have been "abrograted" by God's command before the revelation of the Qur'an was completed. Apart from the fancifulness of this assertion - which calls to mind the image of a human author correcting, on second thought, the proofs of his manuscript, deleting one passage and replacing it with another - there does not exist a single reliable Tradition to the effect that the Prophet ever declared a verse of the Qur'an to have been "abrogated." At the root of the so-called "doctrine of abrogation" may lie the inability of some of the early commentators to reconcile one Qur'anic passage with another: a difficulty which was overcome by declaring that one of the verses in question has been "abrogated." this arbitrary procedure explains also why there is no unanimity whatsoever among the upholders of the "doctrine of abrogation" as to which, and how many, Qur'an verses have been affected by it; and furthermore, as to whether this this alleged abrogation implies a total elimination of the verse in question from the context of the Qur'an, or only a cancellation of the specific ordinance or statement contained in it. In short, the "doctrine or abrogation" has no basis whatever in historical fact, and must be rejected. On the other hand, the apparent difficulty in interpreting the above Qur'anic passage disappears immediately if the term ayah is understood, correctly as "message", and if we read this verse in conjunction with the preceding one, which states that the Jews and Christians refuse to accept any revelation which might supersed that of the Bible: for, if read in this way, the abrogation relates to the earlier divine messages and not to any part of the Qur'an itself.

018.027
YUSUFALI: And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him.
PICKTHAL: And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord. There is none who can change His words, and thou wilt find no refuge beside Him.
SHAKIR: And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord, there is none who can alter His words; and you shall not find any refuge besides Him.
According to Razi, it is on this passage, among others, that the great Qur'an commentator Abu Muslim al Isfahani based his rejection of the so called "doctrine of abrogation."

Deborah said...

6 Now I know that the L-RD saves His anointed;
He will answer him from His holy heaven
With the saving strength of His right hand.
7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses;
But we will remember the name of the L-RD our G-d.
8 They have bowed down and fallen;
But we have risen and stand upright.
- Psalm 20:6-8
***

1 “For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations,
And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
And I will enter into judgment with them there
On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
They have also divided up My land.
3 They have cast lots for My people,
Have given a boy as payment for a harlot,
And sold a girl for wine, that they may drink.
4 “ Indeed, what have you to do with Me,
O Tyre and Sidon, and all the coasts of Philistia?
Will you retaliate against Me?
But if you retaliate against Me,
Swiftly and speedily I will return your retaliation upon your own head;
5 Because you have taken My silver and My gold,
And have carried into your temples My prized possessions.
6 Also the people of Judah and the people of Jerusalem
You have sold to the Greeks,
That you may remove them far from their borders.
7 “ Behold, I will raise them
Out of the place to which you have sold them,
And will return your retaliation upon your own head.
8 I will sell your sons and your daughters
Into the hand of the people of Judah,
And they will sell them to the Sabeans,[a]
To a people far off;
For the L-RD has spoken.”
9 Proclaim this among the nations:

“ Prepare for war!
Wake up the mighty men,
Let all the men of war draw near,
Let them come up.
10 Beat your plowshares into swords
And your pruning hooks into spears;
Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’”
11 Assemble and come, all you nations,
And gather together all around.
Cause Your mighty ones to go down there, O L-RD.
12 “ Let the nations be wakened, and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.
13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe.
Come, go down;
For the winepress is full,
The vats overflow—
For their wickedness is great.”
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision!
For the day of the L-RD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and moon will grow dark,
And the stars will diminish their brightness.
16 The L-RD also will roar from Zion,
And utter His voice from Jerusalem;
The heavens and earth will shake;
But the L-RD will be a shelter for His people,
And the strength of the children of Israel.
17 “ So you shall know that I am the L-RD your G-d,
Dwelling in Zion My holy mountain.
Then Jerusalem shall be holy,
And no aliens shall ever pass through her again.”
-Joel 3:1-17

Amen? Yes, AMEN!

personalrep1 said...

Answer Deborah:

By:
Larry Houle
www.godofreason.com
intermedusa@yahoo.com


All Muslims believe the Koran is the Eternal divine word of God – the laws of God - that God authored the Koran and a copy of the Koran is in heaven. The Koran remains for all Muslims, not just "fundamentalists," the uncreated word of God Himself. It is valid for all times and places forever; its ideas are absolutely true and beyond all criticism. To question it is to question the very word of God, and hence blasphemous. A Muslim's duty is to believe it and obey its divine commands without question.

Muslims can be killed for doing any of the following:


(1) Reviling Allah or his Messenger; (2) being sarcastic about 'Allah's name, His command, His interdiction, His promise, or His threat'; (3) denying any verse of the Quran or 'anything which by scholarly consensus belongs to it, or to add a verse that does not belong to it'; (4) holding that 'any of Allah's messengers or prophets are liars, or to deny their being sent'; (5) reviling the religion of Islam; (6) being sarcastic about any ruling of the Sacred Law; (7) denying that Allah intended 'the Prophet's message . . . to be the religion followed by the entire world.'

A Muslim has the full right granted by God to do the following to infidels:

Infidels can be murdered by Muslims as an ETERNAL LAW OF GOD. Not only can they all be murdered but the wives and daughters of the murdered infidels can be taken as booty, raped, and then sold as slaves. That’s right - God permits the raping of female slaves. Indeed in Islam - rape is not a only a sexual weapon – it is a weapon of war. Having murdered the woman’s man, Muslims can now - sanctioned by the law of God complete their final humiliation and domination of her body. Her sons can be sold into slavery. If there is any doubt as to the boy’s age of puberty - Muslims can pull down their pants and inspect their genital area for hairs. Even the slightest sign of hair growth means that these young men can be taken and beheaded. These infidel women can then be bred like cattle and their off spring sold for profit. As an ETERNAL LAW OF GOD, Muslims can then loot and pillage the property of the murdered infidels, and must share 1/5 of the booty obtained from the sale of boys and women and the proceeds of looting with God. Muslims can own slaves as an ETERNAL LAW OF GOD. Slavery has been an integral institutionalized part of Islam since it’s creation by Muhammad. Muhammad owned 40 slaves. Muhammad was allowed by a ETERNAL LAW OF ALLAH to rape his slaves ALL THIS EVIL ARE THE LAWS OF GOD AS SET DOWN IN THE KORAN. Not only that but righteous Muslims who slay and are slain in the service of God can ascend as martyrs to the evil sexually depraved Islamic Paradise of eternal hard - ons and virgins who re - generate as virgins after each sex act. THIS IS THEIR ETERNAL REWARD FOR OBEYING THESE EVIL LAWS OF GOD.

What I have described are not sins or crimes against the Laws of God - THEY ARE THE LAWS OF GOD.

Murder, slavery, raping, looting, pillaging are all Laws of God provided they are committed against infidels.


MUHAMMAD WAS ALLAH AND ALLAH WAS MUHAMMAD.

All the Kornic teachings are the teachings of Muhammad. He created the ALLAH of the Koran. Muhammad invented ALLAH, and staged the revelations to give him authority over his followers and justification to war against the neighboring tribes of so called idoltars (pagan Arabs) and Jews and Christians – the first infidels that faced the murderous onslaught of this killer and murderous conquering ideology. When Muhammad spoke, he was speaking the word of ALLAH – the laws of ALLAH - that had to be obeyed without question. How could the word of ALLAH be challenged. By morphing into ALLAH and His messenger, Muhammad set up the perfect totalitarian system whereby his rule could not be challenged. MUHAMMAD WAS ALLAH and ALLAH WAS MUHAMMAD. The ALLAH of the Koran never existed except in the mind of Muhammad.

EVIL DEMENTED PARADISE

Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain” 9:111

Those who “fight in the way of ALLAH” and kill and are killed will achieve martyrdom and enter this Paradise (Garden).

On 911 - the 19 Muslims on those planes were obeying 9:111 so they could ascend to the highest levels of Paradise and each be rewarded with a 1000 virgins that they could molest and sexually abuse for all eternity. The eternal hard – on promised to Muslim men who achieve martyrdom is a powerful motivation.

This immoral evil Paradise would be laughable if it wasn’t so tragic. Millions have been murdered so their Muslim murderers can ascend to this evil Paradise.
.
"As for the righteous (Muslims)...We (Allah) shall wed them to beautiful virgins with lustrous eyes" - Q 44:51-54

With its offer of eternal hard-ons and gratifying heavenly sex with virgins who "re-virginate" after sex, its little wonder Muslim terrorists, suicide bombers and other Islamic martyrs are in a hurry to enter Islam's brothel paradise.


How can any normal person believe in Islam with such a pagan Paradise, believe in such an evil ALLAH, pray to such an evil book – the Koran

SUBROGRATION OF WOMEN


“When it's time to pray and you have just used the toilet or touched a woman, be sure to wash up. If you can't find any water, just rub some dirt on yourself. Koran 5:6

Koran 5.60 is the Law of God.
Family Sharia allows only men the right to an easy divorce, having up to 4 wives, allows wife beating, half the inheritance of a man to a woman and her testimony in court is only half valid. She is respected only when she shields her body, face and even her identity. As many as seventy-five percent of women in Pakistani prison are behind bars for the crime of having been raped. Sharia codified into permanent Law a 7th century Arabian Peninsula tribal culture for every Muslim in any culture for ever.
Under Sharia, the Muslim Khalifa or Amir, meaning leader, is exempt from being punished under Sharia. Islamic Sharia law is a dictator’s dream handed to him by Allah.
Polygamy has a devastating effect on family dynamics, husband/wife relationship and women relationships. Many Moslem men only have one wife, but the damage to wife/husband relationship has already been done in the Muslim marriage contract itself; where a man does not pledge loyalty to his wife and the wife cannot expect his loyalty. The marriage contract has 3 more spaces to be filled out by other women if the man wishes. That is why a good Muslim woman must accept her destiny under Sharia Law for one simple reason, challenging Allah’s Law is like challenging Allah himself.
NO PEACE TEACHINGS IN KORAN

The last point is that there are no peace teachings in the Koran. Muhammad (Allah) abolished them all. I sent you an article last week explaining how Muhammad abrograted his early teachings with evil. This is very important because Moslems desperately quote these teachings and ignore the evil ones.

CONCLUSION

Do you believe that God selected an evil murderer Muhammad to create a religion and then commanded that anyone who refused to believe in God’s religion – refused to believe the evil teachings of God and His Messenger - Muhammad must be murdered. That believers in God’s religion have the moral right to murder all human beings who refuse to convert to Islam, rape their wives and daughters, etc and if they are killed in the process of fulfilling 9:111 they will ascend to the immoral and sexually depraved, sick Islamic paradise to rape and molest virgins for all eternity. THIS IS TRUE INSANITY.

Islam is totally bogus, a sham and a fraud. It has absolutely no validity. ISLAM IS EVIL IN THE NAME OF GOD

Quote me one LAW of God in the Bible or Torah that orders Christians/Jews to murder, rape, enslave, torture, terriorize non - unbelievers.