tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post794620376617975990..comments2023-11-03T05:51:16.392-07:00Comments on For Zion's Sake: Messianic MusingsAvihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06156322358503174356noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-60731102335064062502015-11-12T06:44:50.594-08:002015-11-12T06:44:50.594-08:00is Bar Kochba still on this blog??? (Last posting...is Bar Kochba still on this blog??? (Last posting was years ago). I would like to contribute something for you to consider in view of your conclusions regarding the genealogies of Matthew & Luke as being errant. I'll await your response...in the meantime, I'm very thankful for this blogsite and info. being on the web. PatrickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-27970081831968061792011-04-18T21:34:38.457-07:002011-04-18T21:34:38.457-07:00You are deadly wrong.
The wrath of the Lamb is com...You are deadly wrong.<br />The wrath of the Lamb is coming.You will see very soon who you have pierced.Repent and believe for your own sake before it is too late.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-17609370058580961472010-09-19T21:50:44.056-07:002010-09-19T21:50:44.056-07:00wow, interesting comment thread! Why do you want m...wow, interesting comment thread! Why do you want messianic jews to leave israel? Would you rather have jihadis and extremists? And come on, we christians pray for the jews and we pray to the God of all creation- there's only one God. Yeshu who we believe is the promised Messiah was jewish, surely you believe that and He taught us love and you're going to hate us for that? :(Cloverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18180545407228669424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-47515041524364989282008-02-07T13:44:00.000-08:002008-02-07T13:44:00.000-08:00Eitan, thank you for your apology..I accept. Pleas...Eitan, thank you for your apology..I accept. Please accept mine for taunting you for not knowing enough Torah/Talmud to debate with me. I was out of line, and I admire and respect you for entering into study. If we establish an environment of mutual respect, then we can debate anything. I have been involved in some <I>very</I> intense debates in a beit midrash where I though "blood will surely flow!" but afterwards there's lots of hugs and we all went out for dinner. We don;t all have to have the same beliefs, but we can all be friends. I resent the fact that you consider me 'lost' to Israel and my heritage. I consider you brothers, and I would die protecting you/Israel if needed.<BR/><BR/>Interestingly, there are over 15,000 Messianic Jews serving in the IDF in 2007. <BR/><BR/>I hope we can move from here, leave the horrible comments aside, and share ideas and thoughts with mtual respect. I hold that respect for you both, I hope you will have it for me as well.<BR/><BR/>D"SH,<BR/>BDJBig Daddy Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176272324843247623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-66195280894220329032008-02-06T19:20:00.000-08:002008-02-06T19:20:00.000-08:00big daddy: First of, let me apologize once again. ...big daddy: First of, let me apologize once again. I got carried away. No harm intended. The likelihood of me reporting <I>anyone</I> are close to zero. You see, I was raised in the Soviet Union and found out about being Jewish at the age of 7, upon entering Italy. <BR/><BR/>Anyhow, if you believed <I>anyone</I> at this point to be the Mashiach I would consider you mentally unstable. If it were the Lubavitche Rebbi, however, I would repsect your opinion more than the one you currently hold. <BR/><BR/>In short I don't want to discuss religion any longer. Not with those who completely oppose my view. We can and have been friends and have shown the world Jews and Christians and Jews and Muslims can be friends. I'm going to refrain from making stupid statements about having big daddy expelled b/s like B.K. said, you usually don't get expelled from Israel(though there are cases). <BR/><BR/>I'm inviting all y'all to check out my latest post. Peace!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-88686825183535469842008-02-06T19:10:00.000-08:002008-02-06T19:10:00.000-08:00A pyramid has four sides and yet for all intensive...A pyramid has four sides and yet for all intensive purposes appears to be a triangle from many perspectives. How about a yes or no.Papa Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544402123543832168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-40973118901587736662008-02-06T18:57:00.000-08:002008-02-06T18:57:00.000-08:00If the sky were green a dn Buddha was god, would y...If the sky were green a dn Buddha was god, would you be a hipopotamus?<BR/><BR/>One cannot say 'if there as no G-d', or 'if there were many gods', since G-d's existence as One and Only is part of the definition of existence. It is like saying what if a triangle had 4 sides.Avihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156322358503174356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-40791558410326161732008-02-06T18:36:00.000-08:002008-02-06T18:36:00.000-08:00So even if Jesus were a manifestation of God you w...So even if Jesus were a manifestation of God you would not accept him as the long awaited Messiah?Papa Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544402123543832168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-60159869691473147562008-02-06T18:32:00.000-08:002008-02-06T18:32:00.000-08:00Jason: Such a belief is as contrary to Judaism as ...Jason: Such a belief is as contrary to Judaism as the worship of a totem-pole or a volcano. The Moshiach will be a man, a righteous mortal king, who will redeem us from exile and bring the world to service of HaShem.<BR/><BR/>"And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a twig shall grow forth out of his roots. And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. And his delight shall be in the fear of the LORD; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears."<BR/><BR/>If the Moshiach will be G-d, how can He rest His own spirit upon Himself? Does G-d need to rest wisdom upon Himself? Council? Might? Does HaShem fear Himself?Avihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156322358503174356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-46340900630713541642008-02-06T18:30:00.000-08:002008-02-06T18:30:00.000-08:00BK and Eitan, I understand the harsh position that...BK and Eitan, I understand the harsh position that many take concerning messianics, but I just don't see it as helpful. As many of you know, my wife is Messianic, loves Hashem, Israel, and the traditions of our Elders. She doesn't missionize anyone, she just finds fulfillment in her relationship with Hashem. Obviously, I take a softer position than you do. <BR/><BR/>I have found in my life that you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. I am much more influential over others when I respond to them in love and kindness than when I respond harshly. <BR/><BR/>God bless you, BDJ. I pray that you will know the TRUTH of Hashem and the Torah, that you will accept the Traditions that have been preserved and protected with our blood. Though we disagree on alot of things, I don't condemn you and I don't wish you dead. I would be glad to engage you in a debate about the historicity of JC, but I would rather discuss Torah and Talmud. That's why I like BK so much!<BR/><BR/>Shalom everyone...it's too charged up fo rme in here.Yehudihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07370713357407387725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-6644309513599331982008-02-06T18:21:00.000-08:002008-02-06T18:21:00.000-08:00BK -- Please allow me to boil down the argument th...BK -- Please allow me to boil down the argument then. If Jesus was indeed a manifestation to man of God Himself, not separate from God but God showing Himself to man, would you then agree that he was the long awaited Messiah? This, of course, on your part being completely hypothetical in nature.Papa Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544402123543832168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-3845107590730112732008-02-06T18:09:00.000-08:002008-02-06T18:09:00.000-08:00BD"J": The chief Ashkenazi rabbi of Israel is Yona...BD"J": The chief Ashkenazi rabbi of Israel is Yonah Metzger, btw. And the answer depends. The people who believe that the Rebbe was the moshiach are simply misguided, as long as they do not believe hhim to be divine and do not worship him. What set Christianity apart is the belief in a human being G-d-incarnate and its rejection of the Oral Law and the mitzvot.Avihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156322358503174356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-45773057290627410252008-02-06T18:07:00.000-08:002008-02-06T18:07:00.000-08:00JM: Nobody can be expelled from Israel for believi...JM: Nobody can be <EM>expelled</EM> from Israel for believing differently. This is all hyperbole. Unfortunately, the laws against missionization are lax and not enforced. BD"J" has the right to believe as he wishes, just as the Jews had the right to worship Baal, Ashtoret and any other pagan god.<BR/><BR/>A full answer from Jews for Judaism:<BR/>Actually, belief in Jesus is a horrendous sin with grave consequences for any Jew who professes to do so. To understand this let us look at the tragic apostasy of the Northern Kingdom of Israel and its dominant tribe, Ephraim. God, speaking through the prophet Hosea declares, "When Ephraim spoke with trembling, he became exalted in Israel; but when he became guilty through Baal, he died" (Hosea 13:1). When they served God, Ephraim was "exalted," but when they became guilty of idol worship and remained unrepentant despite prophetic warnings to cease their sinful ways they signed their own death warrant. Ephraim died a spiritual death long before it suffered national destruction. <BR/><BR/>From the prophetic message we learn that apostates, even during their lifetime are reckoned as dead as long as they remain unrepentant. The prophet not only denounces belief in molten images fashioned by craftsmen, but also those who trust in a false savior- god: "And I am the Lord your God from the land of Egypt, and gods beside Me you should not know, and there is no savior but Me" (Hosea 13:4). <BR/><BR/>God desires the apostate's repentance and beckons him/her to renounce iniquity: "From the clutches of the grave I would ransom them, from death I would redeem them, I will be your words of death; I will decree the grave upon you. Remorse shall be hidden from My eyes" (Hosea 13:14). <BR/><BR/>For the apostate who does not repent, God says, "I will decree the grave upon you." In a more literal sense, "I will be the cause of your being cut off to the grave." Katavcha, from the verb ketev, denotes "cutting" (e.g. Psalms 91:6). Its primary meaning is "to cut," but in Hosea 13:14, ketev takes on the secondary meaning "decree." In Hebrew, the primary word for decree is gezayra, the root of which is gezer, "to cut." There are a number of word roots in Hebrew whose primary meaning is "cutting," yet have a secondary meaning of a final, permanent decision or ruling (e.g., pasak, chakak, gezer, charatz, karat). <BR/><BR/>As we see, the belief in the false savior-god Jesus is a grave sin. The unrepentant apostate is not only shunned and considered dead by the Jewish community. God Himself considers the unrepentant apostate as spiritually dead in this life and in physical death the apostate is all the more so "cut off." <BR/>***<BR/><BR/>JM, I do not hate you, nor Jason, or any Christian. I deeply respect you. I do not, however, have any respect whatsoever for a Jew who betrays the faith of his ancestors. I like my Christians Christian and my Jews Jewish.Avihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156322358503174356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-9746934077172528862008-02-06T18:03:00.000-08:002008-02-06T18:03:00.000-08:00Eitan, could I ask you a question? What if I said,...Eitan, could I ask you a question? What if I said, "Geez, I was way off! Yeshua isn't the Messiah at all! Rather, I believe that Rav Shlomo Arba, the Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi in Israel is Mashiach!"<BR/>Would you still spew hate at me and threaten to have me and my family thrown out of Israel?Big Daddy Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176272324843247623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-58567855591895246392008-02-06T17:56:00.000-08:002008-02-06T17:56:00.000-08:00It is the hate which I do not wish to participate ...It is the hate which I do not wish to participate in. I do not mind a debate, but I see no need for the hate.<BR/>One of my core beliefs is individual soul liberty. I may not agree with you, I may personally disagree with your beliefs, but I would die defending your right to believe it.<BR/>It saddens me to know that Jews in Israel are not allowed this most basic human right!Rita Locahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09961929692808138092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-28509880836696947672008-02-06T17:55:00.000-08:002008-02-06T17:55:00.000-08:00BK -- BDJ has expressed nothing but love for God a...BK -- BDJ has expressed nothing but love for God and not hate. He does not hate the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He appears to be proud of being Jewish and loves Israel. I do not understand the disdain for someone who would probably stand up beside you and take up arms for the land of Israel. Even if you are right and he is not a "true Jew" does that mean that he can not serve God? Please don't lose sight of the fact that the Jews belong to God and not the other way around. God does not belong to the Jews or anyone else.Papa Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544402123543832168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-85345211650857156482008-02-06T17:48:00.000-08:002008-02-06T17:48:00.000-08:00Then teach me. Why is your hate here any better t...Then teach me. Why is your hate here any better than any other groups hate? Or do you not consider it hate to try to uproot a man from his home? I don't understand.Papa Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544402123543832168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-88890712547642005592008-02-06T17:41:00.000-08:002008-02-06T17:41:00.000-08:00The funny thing is I don't fault you, Jason. I don...The funny thing is I don't fault you, Jason. I don't fault big daddy either--nor for his statements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-63930789442279477392008-02-06T17:24:00.000-08:002008-02-06T17:24:00.000-08:00BK -- If you wish I will delete my other comment.BK -- If you wish I will delete my other comment.Papa Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544402123543832168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-39202590962663685932008-02-06T17:23:00.000-08:002008-02-06T17:23:00.000-08:00Eitan - you failed to explain why your actions wou...Eitan - you failed to explain why your actions would be any better! I did not compare your actions to the guards of the camps I compared them with people turning in their neighbors. You brought hate here, not me.Papa Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544402123543832168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-67768936114581060762008-02-06T17:10:00.000-08:002008-02-06T17:10:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-14029669140203596192008-02-06T17:09:00.000-08:002008-02-06T17:09:00.000-08:00Jason: that is beyone unnapropriate. That is pure ...Jason: that is beyone unnapropriate. That is pure bull. You say you love Israel. I applaud you. Good for you! But please don't meddle in the affairs of the Jewish people and certainly don't ever, ever compare me wanting to let Yad Le'achim know about big daddy's missionary activities to the Holocaust. I WANT A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN US ON THIS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-67805579226765953722008-02-06T16:45:00.000-08:002008-02-06T16:45:00.000-08:00Eitan:I do not understand the hatred that seems to...Eitan:<BR/><BR/>I do not understand the hatred that seems to stand out in your post. Truly I'm sorry you are angry. Yet, not all are wanting to do harm here.<BR/><BR/>Bar Kochba, Is it not better to love? We cannot change the actions of others, only our own. If we act in love, is concern, and not out of hate, isn't it more effective...not to mention healthy? The blood pressure lowers, the heart doesn't race so much, jaws unclench, etc. <BR/><BR/>What separates a Jew from other groups who taunt and mock and hate? Doesn't being chosen mean showing a better way?<BR/><BR/>These are sincere questions, please know that. I'm not picking on people or trying to provoke. I truly am trying to understand all this. Shalom rav to all here.Tsofahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275501239477268530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-31226897542531654802008-02-06T16:43:00.000-08:002008-02-06T16:43:00.000-08:00Please lend me your forgiveness, BK. This idea of...Please lend me your forgiveness, BK. This idea of one Jew hating another and seeking to have him and his family expelled from Israel is beyond what I can fathom. Jews have been the victims of being hunted down and rounded up and expelled by many governments but to suggest that the Jews do this to other Jews who think differently is an atrocity. This thought grieves my spirit and soul. I pray for the peace of Israel but couldn't imagine that they needed protection from their own Jewish neighbors seeking to expel them from the country.Papa Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544402123543832168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7092397679011227919.post-39345333055035822952008-02-06T16:12:00.000-08:002008-02-06T16:12:00.000-08:00FF: Very inappropriate. I hate when the Shoah is a...FF: Very inappropriate. I hate when the Shoah is abused to prove any point. What I would say is that counter-missionary groups like Jews for Judaism, Yad L'Achim, Outreach Judaism, etc. should be given wider access to distribute their material and the kosher treif fraud organizations should be exposed. We should not give up on a single Jew because the Torah says that even if we are dispersed onto the other side of heaven (meaning spiritually), HaShem will bring us back. Look at the descendants of anusim, Jews who converted to Christianity during the Inquisition, who are now returning, or Judaism in Russia, even after the Communists (yimach shemam) tried to destroy Torah. Missionaries should be given no venue to peddle their poisonour treif. Evil cannot be given a foothold, look at the case of the Wayward city which was condemned to destruction (even though the Talmud mentions that this never actually happened but is simply theoretical). The severity of idolatry is emphasized by the fact that the most extreme punishment in Judaism is reserved for a Maisit―someone who promotes and convinces others to follow idolatry. As described in Torah, this person is actively involved in eroding values at the core, and there is no greater threat to society. (See Deuteronomy 13:7-12)<BR/><BR/>Eitan: It is most certianly a mitzvah to hate apikorsim, those who lead Jews astray. Note that this obviously does not apply to non-observant Jews who we must love as our brothers and bring them back to Torah. The Rambam writes (Hilchot De'ot 6:3):<BR/>"It is a mitzva for every Jew to love every other Jew like his own self... Therefore a person must praise his fellow Jew and be careful with his property the same way he is careful with his own property and desires to be treated respectfully. Whoever seeks honor through his neighbor's shame has no portion in the World-to-Come..." Our Sages said (Eliyahu Rabbah 28): So said G-d to Israel: "My children! Have I failed to give you anything? What do I ask of you? Only that you love, respect and revere one another, and that you avoid all sin, theft and unseemly behavior." It is also a mitzvah to mock idolatry. "And the name of another deity you shall not invoke it should not be heard in your mouth." (Ex. 23:13) That's why you see JC instead of his actual name. <BR/>Rabbi Nachman said: All mockery is forbidden except the mockery of idolatry, which is permitted. (Sanhedrin 63b). Also know that an apikoros can only be a Jew so one need not hate a non-Jew who has wrong ideas unless of course he is an anti-semite. (I know that I will be misquoted on this and called hateful so know that I do not hate anyone besides anti-semites and apikorsim.)<BR/><BR/>It is also a mitzvah to mock our enemies. (Think of the video/song published in Israel during the Second Lebanon War of 'yallah, ya Nasrallah'... I hope you know what I'm talking about). Since Tehillim 2:4 says "He that sitteth in heaven laugheth, the Lord hath them in derision" and we are called upon to imitate G-d, we must laugh at our enemies as well.Avihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156322358503174356noreply@blogger.com